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South Humberside 1982

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South Humberside 1982 06/07/2023 at 11:03 #152297
bazzmund
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A year ago I floated the idea of producing 1980s TTs for South Humberside which in my opinion is one of the most criminally under utilised panels produced. Unfortunately I got ill with mental health issues, had a son, did other things and it just quietly slipped off the radar (tl;dr life happened).

Then I bought Traction mag in an ADHD fuelled whim based on the 80s freight through Donny article, and the gears suddenly shifted again to the point that I pulled out my WTTs and started scouting out more to add to the collection. And now here I am, ready to introduce the project that will become South Humberside 1982.

Originally my plan was to do '84 but I have altered my plan for a couple of reasons:
- It would land it slap bang in the middle of the Miner's strike which for the sake of realism would exclude significant amounts of railfreight in the area, a move which would defeat one of the main reasons I have for creating this timetable.
- Although it was the first year of 31 haulage on the south transpennine route the sim is not geared up for operating loco hauled traffic in and out of Cleethorpes. With only the crossover on P1/P2 and no Track circuit release it would involve a lot of manual SPAD and stepping, alongside using P3 and the carriage sidings as an off panel run round. With the majority of Newark - Cleethorpes trains loco hauled as well it would become quite hectic if only a handful of lines are truly available for loco hauled trains.

My original prototype of '84 tried to use seeds to designate a day and choose the trains from a mega timetable, however I just couldn't quite (ie couldn't full stop) get it to work properly. For '82 I've opted to focus on Tuesday first and work from that to expand. If anyone is interested in testing then please let me know - I may have to write up a little manual for it and feedback will go into making it as workable as possible.

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The following users said thank you: elltrain3, snapscan, Banners88, Phil-jmw
South Humberside 1982 09/07/2023 at 18:33 #152324
Banners88
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Would love to get involved with testing.
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South Humberside 1982 10/07/2023 at 17:05 #152332
Cedric
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I remember the South Humberside SIM and enjoyed using it, but unless I am mistaken it is no longer supported and is not on the loader. Consequently not all of us still have access to it, so for me this is a non-starter I am afraid.
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South Humberside 1982 10/07/2023 at 18:04 #152334
Ray
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Yes I liked this sim as well although the numerous entry and exit points (many unlabelled) was challenging.
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South Humberside 1982 11/07/2023 at 08:01 #152339
bazzmund
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Yep, unfortunately it isn't on the loader so unless you have squirrelled it away or can get your hands on a pre-loader version somehow it's a little bit niche (digging through an old hard drive in my case).

As well as a manual for the time-table I'll add a few addendums to help in identifying the entrance/exit points and work arounds in the event of difficulties. One extremely heinous example is while Entrance E and Scunthorpe West Yard are implemented as TT points and exits they are not entry points - particularly grating as West Yard was the speedlink yard and Entrance E was used for the coke trains. One successful work around I have got is the Gunhouse banker (I'll post more in due time once I have got a little further into the TT and seen how protracted use affects it. While there were only 3 mandatory trains needing it, the conditional TT shows it as working nearly non stop throughout a 24 hour period shuttling back and forth from Gunhouse Junction to Frodingham.

Thanks for the interest shown so far. I'm currently working towards getting a full few hours for testing purposes so if you still have a copy tucked away I hope it will be worth the effort.

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South Humberside 1982 11/07/2023 at 13:55 #152346
bugsy
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bazzmund in post 152339 said:
Yep, unfortunately it isn't on the loader so unless you have squirrelled it away or can get your hands on a pre-loader version somehow it's a little bit niche (digging through an old hard drive in my case).

As well as a manual for the time-table I'll add a few addendums to help in identifying the entrance/exit points and work arounds in the event of difficulties. One extremely heinous example is while Entrance E and Scunthorpe West Yard are implemented as TT points and exits they are not entry points - particularly grating as West Yard was the speedlink yard and Entrance E was used for the coke trains. One successful work around I have got is the Gunhouse banker (I'll post more in due time once I have got a little further into the TT and seen how protracted use affects it. While there were only 3 mandatory trains needing it, the conditional TT shows it as working nearly non stop throughout a 24 hour period shuttling back and forth from Gunhouse Junction to Frodingham.

Thanks for the interest shown so far. I'm currently working towards getting a full few hours for testing purposes so if you still have a copy tucked away I hope it will be worth the effort.
I've just counted my .exe sims and luckily have 10 of them, including South Humberside.
Any help with identifying Entry/Exit locations would be good as I often seem to get things wrong

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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South Humberside 1982 28/07/2023 at 08:44 #152472
bazzmund
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Newspaper trains! An under appreciated facet of railway operations. Unfortunately there are a number of mysteries to me surrounding the workings of the Lincolnshire paper trains. I may have worked out a potential diagram which for the purposes of the sim would work for train lengths.

The first Donny to Lincoln was a loco hauled with a timing load of D280, which seems to match up to a lot of timing loads of parcels jobs. For the purposes of this exercise I'm assuming this may have been a 31 plus BSK and vans. Vans sit all day at Lincoln then contribute to 3B02 St marks to Peterborough parcels. May have resulted in a build up of BSKs at Lincoln but there was a WO Clifton - Ferme Park mega train stock move that picked up at Lincoln and dropped off at Peterborough west yard, so 6 BSKs added to the consist.

1D07, the Bane of my existence. P'boro west yard to Grimsby, then empty to Clegg. I think this got combined into the mega train to Donny, then dropped off to be combined into a Clifton - Ferme Park mega train to P'boro. Failing that there was a stock move from Red Bank to P'boro.

The tail load DMU is a tale of treachery and deceit - DMU(T) between Doncaster and Barnetby, DMU to Cleethorpes, then the return is DMU but footnoted to "convey trailing load SX".

Sometimes hyperfixation is a good thing...

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South Humberside 1982 28/07/2023 at 10:06 #152473
bill_gensheet
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bazzmund in post 152472 said:

The first Donny to Lincoln was a loco hauled with a timing load of D280, which seems to match up to a lot of timing loads of parcels jobs. For the purposes of this exercise I'm assuming this may have been a 31 plus BSK and vans.

In case your WTT does not have the conversion tables or you had not realised....

D280 is the timing achieved by a 45/47 hauling 280T - ie load 8
It will be a lot less for a 31, maybe only load 4, and the train could be even shorter and it is just that the WTT used the next worst timing load.

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South Humberside 1982 28/07/2023 at 12:10 #152476
58050
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bill_gensheet in post 152473 said:
bazzmund in post 152472 said:

The first Donny to Lincoln was a loco hauled with a timing load of D280, which seems to match up to a lot of timing loads of parcels jobs. For the purposes of this exercise I'm assuming this may have been a 31 plus BSK and vans.

In case your WTT does not have the conversion tables or you had not realised....

D280 is the timing achieved by a 45/47 hauling 280T - ie load 8
It will be a lot less for a 31, maybe only load 4, and the train could be even shorter and it is just that the WTT used the next worst timing load.
What Bill says is correct, however don't fall into the trap alot of people do for these types of trains. In my King's Cross 1985 TT there a van train that runs from King's Cross to Peterborough in the early hours of the morning & the WTT shows it to have a timing load of D280 which would equate to 8 vehicles, but my King's Cross 1985 station working book shows that train the have a max of 3 vehicles behind it. This tends to occur especially with Newspaper & Parcels trains where the timing load in the WTT indicates a certain number of vehicles, but the train actually runs with less than 8 coaches behind the loco.

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South Humberside 1982 28/07/2023 at 12:22 #152477
58050
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bazzmund in post 152472 said:
Newspaper trains! An under appreciated facet of railway operations. Unfortunately there are a number of mysteries to me surrounding the workings of the Lincolnshire paper trains. I may have worked out a potential diagram which for the purposes of the sim would work for train lengths.

The first Donny to Lincoln was a loco hauled with a timing load of D280, which seems to match up to a lot of timing loads of parcels jobs. For the purposes of this exercise I'm assuming this may have been a 31 plus BSK and vans. Vans sit all day at Lincoln then contribute to 3B02 St marks to Peterborough parcels. May have resulted in a build up of BSKs at Lincoln but there was a WO Clifton - Ferme Park mega train stock move that picked up at Lincoln and dropped off at Peterborough west yard, so 6 BSKs added to the consist.

1D07, the Bane of my existence. P'boro west yard to Grimsby, then empty to Clegg. I think this got combined into the mega train to Donny, then dropped off to be combined into a Clifton - Ferme Park mega train to P'boro. Failing that there was a stock move from Red Bank to P'boro.

The tail load DMU is a tale of treachery and deceit - DMU(T) between Doncaster and Barnetby, DMU to Cleethorpes, then the return is DMU but footnoted to "convey trailing load SX".

Sometimes hyperfixation is a good thing...
Regarding the Doncaster to Lincoln service you mention is 2D70 05.55 Doncaster to Lincoln the formation of this train according to the 1982 ECML & CC passenger train marshalling book shows it formed of loco+NDV[DON - LCN]+SK[off KX-DON]+NCV[conveys traffic for W H Smiths]+NKV [MO]. I'd probably agreed with you it would probably be hauled by a Cl.31. The coaches in this consist are shown as Mk.1 coaches.

Last edited: 28/07/2023 at 12:58 by 58050
Reason: None given

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South Humberside 1982 28/07/2023 at 12:56 #152478
58050
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bazzmund in post 152472 said:
Newspaper trains! An under appreciated facet of railway operations. Unfortunately there are a number of mysteries to me surrounding the workings of the Lincolnshire paper trains. I may have worked out a potential diagram which for the purposes of the sim would work for train lengths.

The first Donny to Lincoln was a loco hauled with a timing load of D280, which seems to match up to a lot of timing loads of parcels jobs. For the purposes of this exercise I'm assuming this may have been a 31 plus BSK and vans. Vans sit all day at Lincoln then contribute to 3B02 St marks to Peterborough parcels. May have resulted in a build up of BSKs at Lincoln but there was a WO Clifton - Ferme Park mega train stock move that picked up at Lincoln and dropped off at Peterborough west yard, so 6 BSKs added to the consist.

1D07, the Bane of my existence. P'boro west yard to Grimsby, then empty to Clegg. I think this got combined into the mega train to Donny, then dropped off to be combined into a Clifton - Ferme Park mega train to P'boro. Failing that there was a stock move from Red Bank to P'boro.

The tail load DMU is a tale of treachery and deceit - DMU(T) between Doncaster and Barnetby, DMU to Cleethorpes, then the return is DMU but footnoted to "convey trailing load SX".

Sometimes hyperfixation is a good thing...
The mega train you've mentioned in your post is 2D95 08.40 Cleethorpes to Doncaster, which runs with 10 vehicles on MO & 11 vehicles MX. The 1982 ER ECML & CC passenger train marshalling book shows the formation as:-
Loco+NKV[CLE SHF]+CK[DON]+SK[DON]+BSK[DON]+SK[DON]+NCV[MAN]+BSK+NDV[SHF]+NKV(MX)[Ferme Pk]+NDV(MSO)[Ferme Pk]+NDV(SX)[DON]+NDV(MO)[MAN]. The coaches in this consist are shown as Mk.1 coaches.

Last edited: 28/07/2023 at 12:59 by 58050
Reason: None given

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South Humberside 1982 29/07/2023 at 20:05 #152508
bazzmund
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Thanks for the info on the carriage workings. I managed to find a copy myself after your input and think I've worked out the workings as follows:

2D94 was always worked by a Longsight loco (usually 40 ex 1E66 Pic - Clee). This was formed NKV, CK, SK, BSK, SK (ex 1E62 Pic - Clee via LCN), NCV, BSK, NDV (ex 1E66 Pic - Clee). This was straight forward. The harder part was clocking the last part. MX NKV (ex 1L22 att 1E66 Don), MSO NDV (Mon ex Su 1L22 att 1E66 Don, Sat ex 1D09) both forwarded to Ferme Park from Don), SX NDV (ex 1L22 forms 1D09 from Pboro), MO NDV (ex Su 1E66), TO NDV (ex 1E66). I think some returned south as part of the NPCCS Ferme Park moves. 1D09 starts Pboro with 4 BG and 1 GUV, 2 BG dropped at Spalding, BG and GUV dropped at Lincoln, final BG runs Grimsby. The Spalding vans are collected by the Linconn - Ferme Park move, the BG and GUV are used on 3B02 St Marks - Pboro parcels, then presumably recycled to Ferme Park. I may need to lay down now.

On a happier note I have had a speed run test of what I've input and clocked a few issues so far which I will have a look into solving. Some are due to the various issues with the sim itself eg 8D21 Holmes Yard to Trent Yard is hit by the issue of the TT not stepping to S38 rev, so I might alter it to run into the goods yard to shunt, then trip across to Trent from there.

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South Humberside 1982 10/10/2023 at 10:35 #153575
bazzmund
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It's been quiet from me but I can assure you I am still working on this. As it stands I am currently working on platform workings at Cleethorpes between 0700 and 0800 when the empty news vans were being prepped for the return workings.
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