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Derby FAQ 04/05/2023 at 20:34 #151674
Soton_Speed
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1. When was the mainline between Kingsbury and Burton upgraded to 125mph (HST) running? Had a HST arr BUT 6E, having passed Kingsbury R/T in pre-2000 era.

2. Is the Outside Sdg an Entry/Exit point?

3. Previous version had 2 TD berths for sig D4. Was this in error?

TIA

In Zone 6, no one can hear you scream...
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Derby FAQ 04/05/2023 at 20:46 #151675
headshot119
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Soton_Speed in post 151674 said:
1. When was the mainline between Kingsbury and Burton upgraded to 125mph (HST) running? Had a HST arr BUT 6E, having passed Kingsbury R/T in pre-2000 era.
At least 2006 from a quick look but I suspect much earlier.

You'll generally find running times are quite slack throughout with stuff waiting at Derby for the appropriate platform to come free.

Soton_Speed in post 151674 said:

2. Is the Outside Sdg an Entry/Exit point?
It's an exit point only, any trains reentering come in via Chaddesden Sidings. The track layout behind the two signals has changed a lot over the years so it's just been left simplified for sim purposes.

Soton_Speed in post 151674 said:

3. Previous version had 2 TD berths for sig D4. Was this in error?

TIA
There are two berths present in the simulation, but Mr Pedrick has just pointed out the conditions for the rear one stepping forward are a bit erm, suspect, so he's raising a Mantis ticket as we speak.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Derby FAQ 09/05/2023 at 23:51 #151729
Soton_Speed
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headshot119 in post 151675 said:
Soton_Speed in post 151674 said:

2. Is the Outside Sdg an Entry/Exit point?
It's an exit point only, any trains reentering come in via Chaddesden Sidings. The track layout behind the two signals has changed a lot over the years so it's just been left simplified for sim purposes.
So does it come under Chaddesden Sdgs for location? Would it be possible to reverse trains behind D496?

Can't seem to set a route from 441 to 388 with a route set across Ldn Rd Jn on Up Gds, see 1V26 save.

Had a train stop on the trailing ladder at St Marys Nth Jn rather than 514 signal, see 6E06 save.

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Derby FAQ 10/05/2023 at 00:26 #151730
Hap
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Point 1: To be confirmed by dev team.
Point 2: 441 - 388: Mantis 38638
Point 3: St Marys Nth Jn: Will need to be taken up by the TT developer.

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Derby FAQ 11/05/2023 at 18:25 #151776
Hap
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Hap in post 151730 said:
Point 1: To be confirmed by dev team.
Point 2: 441 - 388: Mantis 38638
Point 3: St Marys Nth Jn: Will need to be taken up by the TT developer.
1. Outside Sidings and Chaddesden are interchangeable for exiting
2. No change required. Flank locking prevents this route being. Points 720 need to be in reverse, but the route from 436 to 458 requires 720 in the normal. Thus having 6M23 already routed to the Down Goods. You'll have to wait for that to clear.
3. As previously stated, TT issue needing resolved by Author.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Craig

How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue
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Derby FAQ 11/05/2023 at 21:36 #151782
Phil-jmw
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Hap in post 151776 said:
1. Outside Sidings and Chaddesden are interchangeable for exiting
While the sim may permit it, strictly speaking not so. While it was possible to enter Chad Sidings loco first and access the neck at the far end from any of those sidings to release a loco, the Outside Road was a stop block road (dead end), so a train stabling in the Outside Road had to set back in (normally off the Up Goods) to be able to release the loco, so was only really of any use for a train coming from the north to stable.

Last edited: 11/05/2023 at 21:39 by Phil-jmw
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Derby FAQ 11/05/2023 at 21:44 #151783
headshot119
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Phil-jmw in post 151782 said:
Hap in post 151776 said:
1. Outside Sidings and Chaddesden are interchangeable for exiting
While the sim may permit it, strictly speaking not so. While it was possible to enter Chad Sidings loco first and access the neck at the far end from any of those sidings to release a loco, the Outside Road was a stop block road (dead end), so a train stabling in the Outside Road had to set back in (normally off the Up Goods) to be able to release the loco, so was only really of any use for a train coming from the north to stable.
What you are saying is only correct for a certain time period, hence I said :-

headshot119 in post 151675 said:

It's an exit point only, any trains reentering come in via Chaddesden Sidings. The track layout behind the two signals has changed a lot over the years so it's just been left simplified for sim purposes.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Derby FAQ 12/05/2023 at 08:50 #151785
Phil-jmw
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headshot119 in post 151783 said:
Phil-jmw in post 151782 said:
Hap in post 151776 said:
1. Outside Sidings and Chaddesden are interchangeable for exiting
While the sim may permit it, strictly speaking not so. While it was possible to enter Chad Sidings loco first and access the neck at the far end from any of those sidings to release a loco, the Outside Road was a stop block road (dead end), so a train stabling in the Outside Road had to set back in (normally off the Up Goods) to be able to release the loco, so was only really of any use for a train coming from the north to stable.
What you are saying is only correct for a certain time period, hence I said :-

headshot119 in post 151675 said:

It's an exit point only, any trains reentering come in via Chaddesden Sidings. The track layout behind the two signals has changed a lot over the years so it's just been left simplified for sim purposes.
To the best of my knowledge, to which I'll happily stand corrected, the Outside Road remained a stop block road until the 2018 resignalling (I had long since moved on by then) when the sigings were also remodelled and signalling provided from each road, which didn't exist in PSB days, so as we're referring in this thread to Derby PSB and not EMCC (Oct 2018 onwards), my comment is relevant to any era within the sim (certainly in the context of the recent re-release with a 1987 TT). The Outside Road should be an exit and entry point (as various dead end sidings are in other sims), because whatever went onto in there came back out the same way, not via the main Chad Sidings. The shunter would tell the signalman which returning train he wanted stabling on the Outside Road.

Last edited: 12/05/2023 at 08:53 by Phil-jmw
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Derby FAQ 12/05/2023 at 09:03 #151787
Phil-jmw
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headshot119 in post 151305 said:
The control table I was able to source for the 970 release doesn't indicate any locking between the individual frames, just that all three release levers need to be normal to take it back, so the simulation has been setup to reflect that.

Whether that changed over the years I don't know, it's definitely not the original control table as it's revision 3.
That seems odd, as I do recall that if a guard when putting one GF back normal couldn't get the release lever on another frame (+ there would be no reason normally to release more than one frame at a time as the guard couldn't be in two places at once, and there would be the risk of 'interference' by persons unknown if a frame was left unattended (and Sinfin isn't the best of areas), or the signalman couldn't get 970 release back after a guard had normalised a frame , it required a visit from the S&T to sort things out, often delaying a train waiting to come off the Sinfin branch until they got there, which quite neatly leads me to another issue. I was able to clear DY374 Sig off the branch with Sinfin No.1 GF still released (9T09 stood at 374 but with rear still on points after exiting the loop). I don't know what the control tables state, but before I tried to set a route from 374 my gut feeling was "I shouldn't be able to clear 374", but it did indeed clear.

Last edited: 12/05/2023 at 09:10 by Phil-jmw
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Derby FAQ 12/05/2023 at 11:44 #151791
headshot119
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Phil-jmw in post 151785 said:

To the best of my knowledge, to which I'll happily stand corrected, the Outside Road remained a stop block road until the 2018 resignalling (I had long since moved on by then) when the sigings were also remodelled and signalling provided from each road, which didn't exist in PSB days, so as we're referring in this thread to Derby PSB and not EMCC (Oct 2018 onwards), my comment is relevant to any era within the sim (certainly in the context of the recent re-release with a 1987 TT). The Outside Road should be an exit and entry point (as various dead end sidings are in other sims), because whatever went onto in there came back out the same way, not via the main Chad Sidings. The shunter would tell the signalman which returning train he wanted stabling on the Outside Road.
Plans for the PSB (EMCC is different again as they did a load to add signalling) show a facing set of hand points, around a loco length behind DY496, which would allow you to go from behind DY496 into Chaddesden Sidings.

On the same plan, is a trailing set of hand points, which would allow you to go from the Outside Siding to DY494. It's noted these had been plain lined under previous work, with no date given.

There was a different layout again when the PSB first opened, though I don't have a definite date on when it lasted until, with Chaddesden shunt frame still being present.

Hence I've just left it simplified in the simulation.

Phil-jmw in post 151787 said:

That seems odd, as I do recall that if a guard when putting one GF back normal couldn't get the release lever on another frame (+ there would be no reason normally to release more than one frame at a time as the guard couldn't be in two places at once, and there would be the risk of 'interference' by persons unknown if a frame was left unattended (and Sinfin isn't the best of areas), or the signalman couldn't get 970 release back after a guard had normalised a frame , it required a visit from the S&T to sort things out, often delaying a train waiting to come off the Sinfin branch until they got there, which quite neatly leads me to another issue. I was able to clear DY374 Sig off the branch with Sinfin No.1 GF still released (9T09 stood at 374 but with rear still on points after exiting the loop). I don't know what the control tables state, but before I tried to set a route from 374 my gut feeling was "I shouldn't be able to clear 374", but it did indeed clear.
There's nothing on DY374 controls preventing the route set or the aspect to come off with the ground frames released. I suspect if a control like that had been included it would get a bit tasty with a train at the maximum length the branch could handle, as you'd never be able to clear the signal to get it back off the branch if you'd used the loop for whatever reason.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Derby FAQ 12/05/2023 at 12:40 #151793
Phil-jmw
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headshot119 in post 151791 said:
There was a different layout again when the PSB first opened, though I don't have a definite date on when it lasted until, with Chaddesden shunt frame still being present.
Yes, when the PSB first opened in 1969 much of Chad Sdgs was still in use, with sidings still existing right past the wagon shops (the last of which was only recently demolished after seeing many years use as a fireplace shop) all the way up to the former Spondon Junction. http://www.derby-signalling.org.uk/ has Chaddesden South Junction and Derby South Junction SB's being retained as shunt frames to work Chad Sdgs for some time after the PSB opened, but succombed as traffic there dwindled, but with no closure dates given.

Last edited: 12/05/2023 at 12:41 by Phil-jmw
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Derby FAQ 14/05/2023 at 20:02 #151846
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Odd one...

Train coming out from Accordis, I pulled off route 408 to behind 401 and started to lower Spondon barriers. Informed the crossing was blocked by a road vehicle but can't raise the barrier as an off sim single was working behind the scenes (I'm guessing). Talked 6T23 over the crossing hoping this would then allow me to raise the barriers but still no good.

Is there a solution to this I'm missing? Save attached after talking 6T23 through.

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Derby FAQ 15/05/2023 at 12:35 #151851
jc92
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Phil-jmw in post 151793 said:
headshot119 in post 151791 said:
There was a different layout again when the PSB first opened, though I don't have a definite date on when it lasted until, with Chaddesden shunt frame still being present.
Yes, when the PSB first opened in 1969 much of Chad Sdgs was still in use, with sidings still existing right past the wagon shops (the last of which was only recently demolished after seeing many years use as a fireplace shop) all the way up to the former Spondon Junction. http://www.derby-signalling.org.uk/ has Chaddesden South Junction and Derby South Junction SB's being retained as shunt frames to work Chad Sdgs for some time after the PSB opened, but succombed as traffic there dwindled, but with no closure dates given.
Chaddesden South was closed 17/07/77, Derby South Jcn is shown as closing 07/69, just two months after commissioning. Dates are SRS confirmed. the Yellow Peril for Derby doesn't show South Jcn Box at all so I suspect it was retained only temporarily while the layout was completed on Chad curve. the PSB is shown as controlling all the northern end of the yard.

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Derby FAQ 15/05/2023 at 15:56 #151853
Hap
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Banners88 in post 151846 said:
Odd one...

Train coming out from Accordis, I pulled off route 408 to behind 401 and started to lower Spondon barriers. Informed the crossing was blocked by a road vehicle but can't raise the barrier as an off sim single was working behind the scenes (I'm guessing). Talked 6T23 over the crossing hoping this would then allow me to raise the barriers but still no good.

Is there a solution to this I'm missing? Save attached after talking 6T23 through.
Mantis 38676 for investigation. At present it seems unrecoverable without intervening with debug tools. Sorry about this and we'll hope to get it rectified quickly as we can.

Cheers
Craig

How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue
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Derby FAQ 17/05/2023 at 17:19 #151875
AndyG
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Wrong route call - Drakelow East Curve Jn.
Train at sig 126 booked Drakelow PS fails to call wrong route towards Drakelow W Jn / Birmingham curve Jn

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Last edited: 17/05/2023 at 17:19 by AndyG
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Derby FAQ 17/05/2023 at 17:26 #151877
headshot119
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AndyG in post 151875 said:
Wrong route call - Drakelow East Curve Jn.
Train at sig 126 booked Drakelow PS fails to call wrong route towards Drakelow W Jn / Birmingham curve Jn
Mantis 38685

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Derby FAQ 17/05/2023 at 18:52 #151880
AndyG
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Wrong Route call - St Mary's N Jn
Train at sig 518 booked {St Mary rev 525/7} & St Mary's Yard fails to call wrong route towards Ambergate Jn/Clay Cross (R518CM?). ($7E3820571 on Pascal's WTT, for the tape)

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Derby FAQ 23/05/2023 at 00:54 #151935
AndyG
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Passing Wichnor Jn (towards Lichfield)

Trains passing Wichnor Jn don't register passing the location till well past the junction.
See attached screenshots before and 2 seconds after the event.




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Derby FAQ 23/05/2023 at 07:40 #151936
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AndyG in post 151935 said:
Passing Wichnor Jn (towards Lichfield)

Trains passing Wichnor Jn don't register passing the location till well past the junction.

This will be a consequence of it now being a valid reversing location (required for certain ECS moves from Nottingham towards Barton RCMD North) that the timing point is at the signal.

Thanks
Jamie

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Derby FAQ 23/05/2023 at 08:46 #151937
AndyG
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Wrong route call - Stenson Jn

Train at DY308 booked to Willington PS fails to call wrong route towards N Staffs Jn (sig 304).

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Derby FAQ 23/05/2023 at 09:17 #151938
AndyG
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Wrong route - Spondon

Train at sig DY404 booked Spondon Courtaulds+Accordis fails to call wrong route towards Derby (sig 406)


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Derby FAQ 23/05/2023 at 11:18 #151939
headshot119
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AndyG in post 151938 said:
Wrong route - Spondon

Train at sig DY404 booked Spondon Courtaulds+Accordis fails to call wrong route towards Derby (sig 406)

Mantis 38709

AndyG in post 151937 said:
Wrong route call - Stenson Jn

Train at DY308 booked to Willington PS fails to call wrong route towards N Staffs Jn (sig 304).
Mantis 38708

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Derby FAQ 25/05/2023 at 02:06 #151949
AndyG
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Wrong route - Coalville Jn

A reasonable alternative to enable train to rev behind ML223 vice shunt ahead into Bardon Hill block?


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Derby FAQ 25/05/2023 at 02:15 #151950
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Update, train reverses correctly when forced past ML124.


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Derby FAQ 25/05/2023 at 19:01 #151960
AndyG
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Unable to set route 441-338 (P1A towards Peartree) whilst 436-458 (up Gds to DGL) is set.
Is this as real life, seems unduly restrictive as no conflict/ flank protection)?


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