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| Trains examining the line between Wraysbury and Datchet. 12/05/2023 at 09:10 #151788 | |
i26
306 posts |
I have a TCF which needs to be examined. I talked the train past the starter signal at Wraysbury and asked the driver to examine the line. Once the train stopped at Sunnymeads the driver called and said nothing found although the TCF was between Sunnymeads and Datchet and no option was given to continue the exam.
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| Trains examining the line between Wraysbury and Datchet. 12/05/2023 at 10:16 #151789 | |
9pN1SEAp
1102 posts 
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It’s a mild irritation that trains will stop examining after reaching a scheduled halt. You can use F2 to tell the driver to examine the line before the train departs, and it will proceed at cautious speed to the next signal. Thanks Jamie Jamie S (JAMS) Log in to reply |
| Trains examining the line between Wraysbury and Datchet. 12/05/2023 at 16:11 #151802 | |
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i26
306 posts |
9pN1SEAp in post 151789 said:It’s a mild irritation that trains will stop examining after reaching a scheduled halt. You can use F2 to tell the driver to examine the line before the train departs, and it will proceed at cautious speed to the next signal. ThanksTried doing that but it said the train wasn't at a red signal.
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| Trains examining the line between Wraysbury and Datchet. 12/05/2023 at 19:39 #151808 | |
MrSuttonmann
265 posts |
This thread has reminded me of something I thought of a little while ago whilst reading the wiki page on track circuit failures. There's no way in SimSig to get a train to stop at a non-controllable signal to perhaps facilitate a track inpection on an opposite running line. I was wondering if that might be a possible wishlist feature - an option to stop and telephone at the next signal regardless of aspect? Is this a thing that real-life signallers can do? (Formerly known as manadude2) Last edited: 12/05/2023 at 19:40 by MrSuttonmann Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Trains examining the line between Wraysbury and Datchet. 12/05/2023 at 19:50 #151809 | |
y10g9
895 posts |
MrSuttonmann in post 151808 said:This thread has reminded me of something I thought of a little while ago whilst reading the wiki page on track circuit failures. There's no way in SimSig to get a train to stop at a non-controllable signal to perhaps facilitate a track inpection on an opposite running line.Already on the wishlist as 27296 (PSAD and call back regardless) and 8212 (call at next signal) Last edited: 12/05/2023 at 19:51 by y10g9 Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: MrSuttonmann |
| Trains examining the line between Wraysbury and Datchet. 12/05/2023 at 20:13 #151810 | |
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TUT
510 posts
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MrSuttonmann in post 151808 said:This thread has reminded me of something I thought of a little while ago whilst reading the wiki page on track circuit failures. There's no way in SimSig to get a train to stop at a non-controllable signal to perhaps facilitate a track inpection on an opposite running line.I'm not precisely sure what you mean. For track circuit failures the real life rules absolutely require that if a train is to pass on a line immediately next to the affected line before it has been examined, that train must be cautioned past the TCF. There is also a general requirement that trains on adjacent lines must be cautioned while a line is being examined. Also they seem to have a real fondness these days for 'examining' any kind of issue from adjacent lines if a train on an adjacent line will pass the area before one on the affected line. This is despite the Rule Book explicitly stating: Quote: If the train signalling regulations require a line to be examined, this can be achieved by one of the following.They do of course always get it examined from the affected line as well before resuming normal working, but I don't really know where this new fashion has come from. But obviously to achieve this it isn't possible to stop a train at a 'non-controllable' signal: it's non-controllable. You will have to use a controlled signal or automatic signal with a replacement switch in the rear and talk to the driver there. And then what you will probably do is just get them to examine the line between point A and point B there and then, instead of saying can you stop at some automatic signal ahead and call me again, I've got a secret to tell you, but I can't tell you now. I mean there's something to be said for not giving safety-critical instructions miles and miles from where they actually need to be applied, but there's not a lot of benefit to telling someone to call you back in two signals time when you're already on the phone to them now. Now what you could do is perhaps talk to the driver at a station, say. You could send a 'contact signaller' message on the GSM-R and get the driver to call you from a station that way. And if you had a TCF happen on an adjacent line and there was a train approaching on an unaffected line and you had no way of stopping them, you should indeed make an urgent call on the GSM-R radio. So there are options like that for real life, but SimSig has so far steered clear of becoming a GSM-R simulator and GSM-R is quite new. I believe CSR had the ability to send text messages so there were options, but in many of the eras in which SimSig is set the ability to contact a driver at an arbitrary point wasn't really a thing. As for asking a driver to stop and telephone at the next signal regardless of aspect of course that is an instruction that you could give. But why would you? If I'm on the phone to you now, and I've got something to tell you, I'll tell you. It could come up if you suspected a fault with the signal and you wanted the driver to stop at it and tell you what it was showing, that might happen. Maybe you would even then replace a signal ahead and see if you could get it to show something else, so it might come up then. I can't really think of too many other situations when you'd want to do that. If there's an obstruction of the line you're meant to tell the driver to stop immediately (not in a few signals time) and then remain at a stand regardless of aspect - and regardless of any change of aspect. This is really in case say a signal is being held at danger by an obstruction which is then removed so the signal clears, or perhaps in case of a mistake by the signaller or whatever, you want the driver to remain at a stand until you give them authority to proceed. But that's not really the same thing. Last edited: 12/05/2023 at 20:15 by TUT Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Trains examining the line between Wraysbury and Datchet. 12/05/2023 at 21:26 #151812 | |
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MrSuttonmann
265 posts |
TUT in post 151810 said:As for asking a driver to stop and telephone at the next signal regardless of aspect of course that is an instruction that you could give. But why would you? If I'm on the phone to you now, and I've got something to tell you, I'll tell you.We can't do that in SimSig, though. Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but say I have a TCF on the Down line with no trains due for 20 minutes, but I have an Up train due but he's already past the last controllable signal and there's no stations he's due to stop at. How can I get this driver to stop at the signal preceding the TCF on the opposite line and get him to inspect? I can't. I'm assuming (because I don't know how GSM radio operates or the type of messages that can be sent) that a signaller can send a message to a driver via GSM to say "Stop at the next signal and call". That's all I'm asking is possible in real-life. There is no pre-existing phone call. (Formerly known as manadude2) Last edited: 12/05/2023 at 21:27 by MrSuttonmann Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Trains examining the line between Wraysbury and Datchet. 12/05/2023 at 22:39 #151813 | |
GeoffM
6288 posts |
A driver is under no obligation to call the signaller while on the move even if the signaller initiates a request to call the signaller. Some drivers/TOCs might answer but some TOCs forbid it while on the move. Signal replacement, without causing brown trouser moments to the driver with aspect reversion, was and still is an effective way to get a driver to stop safely. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Trains examining the line between Wraysbury and Datchet. 12/05/2023 at 23:50 #151814 | |
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TUT
510 posts
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So for me a more useful feature would be the ability to tell a driver to examine the line in the future. Obviously "from 124½ mile post until GN101 signal on the adjacent line (do you know where that is driver?)" is not a very fair request, but from signal X ahead might be much more realistic and useful than a feature to get a driver to call at signal X ahead and then caution. On GSM-R you can send a 'contact signaller' message. As Geoff says drivers do not have to respond to that on the move, some of them will, I personally would rather they wait until they've stopped but it's up to them really. They'll answer it when they're ready and there is no sense of urgency. You can also just ring them and they might or might not answer. When I say you can, I mean the equipment will do it if you try. However, the rules are clear Quote: Except in an emergency, you must not use the train radio to speak to the driver unless you are sure that the train concerned is at a standstill.You can also initiate an urgent call. In the case of a train which cannot be stopped and is approaching a TCF on an adjacent line, you don't know what that is, so I would say an urgent call would be proper and in reality you could do that. An urgent call will automatically connect after 2 rings and will get the driver's attention. They are for use in emergency situations and can be made to moving trains. An urgent call will only be received by one train. You can also make a Railway Emergency Group Call which goes out to all trains in the (generally 6 kilometre diameter) cell and any overlapping cells on either side (so potentially 18 kilometres). These will cause all trains receiving the call to come to a stop and are appropriate for use in emergency situations where more than one train is involved. They will absolutely get people's attention and full radio protocols must be observed, including the use of 'over' and 'out'. Drivers will not restart their trains until prompted to do so by the trigger phrase 'end of railway emergency group call' (unless they've been told to remain at a stand obviously). You can also set up a berth-triggered broadcast which will cause a pre-recorded message to play when a train reaches the berth. They can only be used in certain situations though. It is also possible I believe to send text messages. I'm not sure exactly how they're received in the train cab, but you can certainly send text messages from fixed terminal to fixed terminal if you don't like speaking to your colleagues. Last edited: 13/05/2023 at 02:15 by TUT Reason: None given Log in to reply The following users said thank you: GeoffM, Dionysusnu |