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| interlocking drop 25/09/2011 at 18:20 #21281 | |
jc92
3629 posts 
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just an idea for the faithful/evil (delete as applicable) f11 menu is it possible to drop a whole interlocking area, ie a power drop, everything drops to red and fails safe. obviously this does happen occasionally and i can see it spicing multiplayer up a fair bit. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following users said thank you: headshot119, Didcot |
| Re: interlocking drop 25/09/2011 at 18:55 #21285 | |
Peter Bennet
5360 posts |
Everything that is allowed to fail in a Sim is coded to a location so I can see it could be a possibility in theory. However, for various reasons developers may not code everything to fail so there could be patches. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 25/09/2011 at 19:50 #21286 | |
Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts |
Cable theft would also cause this, however it should be noted that, as happens in real life, a total interlocking failure would make the sim almost unplayable in the same way as hardly anything runs in reality.
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| Re: interlocking drop 25/09/2011 at 22:16 #21290 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
To simulate interlocking drop/cable theft: Minimise SimSig, and then pray the trains somehow run themselves?
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| Re: interlocking drop 26/09/2011 at 06:52 #21292 | |
GeoffM
6282 posts |
" said:is it possible to drop a whole interlocking area, ie a power drop, everything drops to red and fails safe.Actually it's extremely rare, as interlockings are supposed to be highly reliable. Bits of interlocking equipment, usually cabling, are more likely to fail. The manner of failure is going to vary so widely depending on the interlocking type, cabling, location, and weather (yes, weather). SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 26/09/2011 at 10:47 #21304 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts |
Lightning can do SSI the world of good! In my experience, cables failing are far more likely to be a problem than, for instance, an SSI failing in its entirety, which I have never seen. Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 26/09/2011 at 13:03 #21313 | |
alvinhochun
249 posts |
There's an incident happened recently in China (even listed on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzhou_train_collision). A high-speed train crashed into another train operating in low speed restricted mode. (It is said that those signals suddenly changed into green that caused the crash) Someone said lightning, someone said the staff just manually overrdde the signals... Lots of information in Chinese, and there may also be a few in English... By the way I think systems simulated by SimSig won't undergo these incidents, i.e. signals showing green when occupied??? _ _ _ _，_ _ _ _！ (censored by the Hong Kong national security law) Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 26/09/2011 at 13:57 #21320 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Quote:By the way I think systems simulated by SimSig won't undergo these incidents, i.e. signals showing green when occupied???No rail system including the Chinese system are designed to allow such things happening. Such failures are called wrong side failures and are extremely rare. The incident does sound rather similar to the Severn Tunnel Accident in that the accident happened during a degraded mode of operation. Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 11/10/2011 at 20:51 #21673 | |
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button_pusher
56 posts |
More common than an interlocking failure is the transmission system for the interlocking (i.e. the TDM system) between the signal box and remote interlocking. This results in a multitude of interesting failures including: Control System: Signals not flashing i.e. unable to set routes. Points not moving via IPS Indication System: This could show several tcs occupied when clear but not hold any signals at danger (indication fault only) Points flash out of correspondance although routes can be set over them (indication fault only) Signals show black although are working fine on the ground Or a total failure of the TDM meaning out come the post-it notes for that area. When this occurs some PSBs have "overrides" fitted which means that certain pre-programmed routes can be set to enable trains to run. Another fault that occurs more than an "interlocking drop" are individual signalling equipment cupboard fuses blowing meaning several TCs/signals/points fail in a small area. One fault that I'd like to see is an intermittant TC failure! That would cause some fun. Cheers button_pusher (with one interlocking drop on purpose under his belt!) Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 11/10/2011 at 21:08 #21674 | |
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jc92
3629 posts
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" said:agreed on that point, one of the annoying ones to signal around but more interesting than just failed or working. and also - how about right side failed TCs? (im thinking how annoying one of those in the middle of finsbury park would be  *cracks rulebook out* "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 11/10/2011 at 21:14 #21675 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts |
All SimSig TCF's are right side. A Wrong Side TCF would be when the track circuit was showing clear when occupied. Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 11/10/2011 at 21:42 #21677 | |
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jc92
3629 posts
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sorry. its late at night lol. I had a wrong side the other day "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 11/10/2011 at 21:59 #21678 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Quote:Leaves/Sandite combined with a short light vehicle or else an indication only fault? Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 11/10/2011 at 22:43 #21681 | |
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jc92
3629 posts
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IIRC it turned out to be heavily contaminated railhead
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 12/10/2011 at 07:34 #21688 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts |
That is a very common fault at this time of the year. The average passenger ridicules the railway for "leaves on the line" but fails to understand the significance. Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 12/10/2011 at 09:03 #21690 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
" said:More common than an interlocking failure is the transmission system for the interlocking (i.e. the TDM system) between the signal box and remote interlocking. This results in a multitude of interesting failures including:Clapton Junction Westronic comes unaccountably to mind. Apparently it was known to the installers, 15yr before I knew it, as the "catastronic"! Usual failure mode was a "flash", most often as a set of Chingford ECS passed on the down & generally reckoned to be something to do with the neutral section just outside the relay room. Effect in Hackney Downs was spectacular, with 2/3 of the panel going red & a whole slew of alarms sounding for about 3 sec before it all self-rectified. Signalmen were used to it, didn't even seem to notice the mayhem breaking out around them. " said: <snip> Hackney certainly didn't; if the Westronic went down properly the local SM or on-call man was whistled up to operate the local control panel (this was before the days of MOMs). It usually was an on-call man; the usual failure time was Saturday evening, just about dinner time, and it was invariably cold, wet & windy (& the relay room at Clapton Junc was on top of the embankment across the Lea Valley, with nowt to stop the wind this side of Moscow)! Memories to be sure, but not so certain they're happy ones... " said: Too damn right it does!! <Mutters darkly about the Sick & Tired Dept around North Pole.> Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 12/10/2011 at 10:49 #21694 | |
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button_pusher
56 posts |
I've refurbed a button before on a saturday night during the T3s. Replaced it in the panel, got everything tightened up and pressed the button to test at the exact same moment that distribution where crash testing the power supply. The panel when red, the box lights went out and alarms galore. Cue me bricking it and the signalman laughing! Westpac has built in overrides (well ours does!) so you can set basic routes over junctions i.e. up main to up main/down main to down main but its extremely limited and functions to get the job sort of working. As for intermittant TC faults and on behalf of NP S&T, here is the excuse book: Signalman have to caution the backlog of trains over the failed tc meaning we stuggle to get in to test. You can have 3 minutes now but its currently clear. I attended one on Sunday night, was meant to finish at 10pm, arrived on site at 10pm to be told yes its failed but i've got 2 trains to run before I can give you a line blockage. Track circuit was pretty much SOWC APOT though did have brief spells of clearing. Second train ran past, signalman comments that its just a short section on his panel and it won't take us long. Line blockage given, ask if TC is failed and was told no it's clear. Grrrr. It's a 3 part track circuit i.e. TC 1A + TC1B + TC1C all combine to form TC1 indication on the panel. We now have to perform full ROA checks on 3 sections as they are all clear and working fine. Luckily my relief turned up eventually and I left them too it. Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 12/10/2011 at 11:32 #21695 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:A right-side failure is one where the TC shows occupied when it shouldn't. Perhaps you mean wrong-side? Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 12/10/2011 at 13:06 #21699 | |
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ggg gg
7 posts |
Thought people may be interested in this document which explains fairly clearly what happens in real life when you get a cable theft causing signal/points failure and a shortage of staff/equipment to deal with the problem. i.e. 80,000 people delayed. http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/executivesummaryoftheindependentreview.pdf Makes interesting reading and right up to date as it happened on 09 June 11. Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 12/10/2011 at 19:06 #21703 | |
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jc92
3629 posts
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" said:" said:already corrected this error in a previous postA right-side failure is one where the TC shows occupied when it shouldn't. Perhaps you mean wrong-side? "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 12/10/2011 at 21:52 #21711 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:" said:Ah bugger, I failed at hitting the "Page 2" button there." said:already corrected this error in a previous postA right-side failure is one where the TC shows occupied when it shouldn't. Perhaps you mean wrong-side? Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 13/10/2011 at 09:57 #21716 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
" said:
I think this was well before your time mate, though it's interesting to hear it's still going on even with the new signalling. Usual sequence: quiet part of the night; a soft 'clunk' from beneath the box, look at the diagram to find one of the tracks on the up has failed (I think it was usually either the track immediately in advance of the "from Mitre Bridge" home or the next one along that covered the junction points from Old Oak). The block controls have put the Mitre Bridge instrument to TOL. We're familiar with the drill now, so we don't bother about it, but I do note the time. Mitre Bridge offers something on the up. When he comes on the phone I tell him (wearily) that the so-and-so track has failed again so it's 25a(iii). It's now worth entering the failure in the Block Book, along with the train. Just as the Mitre gives TES the track clears!!!!!!!!!!! So the train creeps over the bridge to find all off for him. Except sometimes the track clears before the Mitre has anything for me, in which case we don't bother writing anything down (the entries involving trains are plentiful evidence of the fault). Repeat ad nauseum until your mate arrives at 06:00. Now that would be a good one to simulate in the AB sections at Worksop. I'll get my coat on the way out... Log in to reply |
| Re: interlocking drop 14/10/2011 at 10:17 #21759 | |
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button_pusher
56 posts |
We've got one at the minute where you take a signal out of auto and several track indications light up. Put the signal back into auto and the track indications go back out!
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| Re: interlocking drop 14/10/2011 at 20:34 #21790 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts |
Is there something loose in the back of the panel?
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| Re: interlocking drop 15/10/2011 at 15:23 #21800 | |
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button_pusher
56 posts |
Its a long standing TDM fault thats perplexing quite a few people. One bit on card appears to affect the same bit on every other card for that system (each card has 16 "bits" and there are up to 26? cards in a system). We've managed to move the fault around somehow a couple of times i.e. cured one set of indication faults and created a whole new set! All cards have been changed before anyone asks! Log in to reply |