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| Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 11:54 #23404 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
I find Interposing has to be one of my commonest, if not the commonest activity in SimSig. Currently, it requires two actions to bring up the Interpose window - R-click the train to select it, then L-click to select Interpose, or R-click the train and cross the left hand over (if R-handed) to press the I key). Why not do it all with just one left-click on the train by holding the Shift key down at the same time? Alternatively the Ctrl key (Ctrl+click) could be used instead. I chose the Shift key as it is larger. The same could be made to apply to signals. Left-clicking would work as usual (display/update the Show Timetable window). Shift+Left-clicking would Interpose. This feature could also be made optional for those used to doing it the current way. Last edited: 21/11/2011 at 12:04 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 11:58 #23406 | |
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AndyG
1835 posts |
The letter 'I' brings up the Interpose window directly. Hit I, type in the Train Description, click on the appropriate signal. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 12:00 #23407 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
What if the train is between signals? 
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| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 12:02 #23408 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
Simsig is much easier than the real SCC menu wise. At least on SimSig the F keys always do the same thing and aren't menu dependent.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 12:09 #23410 | |
jc92
3631 posts |
" said:What if the train is between signals? :)interpose to the signal towards which the train is travelling. in reality trains dont carry their descriptions along with them, each signal has a train description berth and these carry the description forward, hence why sometimes descriptions disapear- through a lack of a describer berth. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 12:11 #23412 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
It just seems a lot more intuitive to me to shift-click the headcode one wants to interpose than to press I, type in a headcode, hunt for the right signal to click and then click it. Likewise, Ctrl+clicking a headcode might be another way of Cancelling it (C for both Ctrl and Cancel). I'd be interested in Geoff M's comments here as he is the designer/coder. Nothing improves acceptance more than good interface design, even if professional signallers have to put up with poorly designed user interfaces at work. (added) Just read jc92's reply - thanks. Didn't know the target signal for interposing is the one towards which the train is heading (another one for the Wiki). Live and learn. Yes, that would make the current method efficient. Maybe there's a place for both options in SigSim. (added) Another less obvious nuisance of pressing I to bring up the Interpose window is that before you can do this, you have to know what the new headcode will be. This usually means clicking the train's current headcode on the map to bring up or refresh the Show Timetable window. This unfortunately also makes the Show Timetable window the current window (gives it the "focus"), so pressing I has no effect until you make the main panel the focus again by clicking somewhere in it. One more step between you and the new headcode. It should be possible to recode it so that when the Show Timetable window has focus, pressing I will return focus to the main panel, then display the Interpose window. After all it's possible to set routes, etc, even while secondary windows lie above the main panel. Last edited: 21/11/2011 at 13:22 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 13:00 #23418 | |
postal
5191 posts |
" said:Nothing improves acceptance more than good interface design, even if professional signallers have to put up with poorly designed user interfaces at work.I'm not sure that this is actually a relevant point for those who use SimSig as I have never seen any thing to indicate that such users have any problem in accepting what is on offer. If the point is actually about your acceptance rather than acceptance per se, then perhaps I could ask you to consider the wishes and acceptance levels of the whole "community". “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 21/11/2011 at 13:00 by postal Log in to reply |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 13:08 #23421 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
I am considering the wishes and acceptance of the whole community, which is why I am proposing making SimSig's interface easier for all to use. My point is that professional signallers who also play SimSig have a much more difficult task than we amateur gamers in that they need to memorize two different user interfaces for a very similar end-result, and even if the user interface at work could have been better designed, they can't do much to change it the way we can, if it doesn't suit them, so are obliged to make the most of what they have in front of them. Humans are incredibly adaptable and are likely to say after a while "I can't imagine doing it any other way" when in fact their work habits have been conditioned by the ideas of the software designer. Incidentally, my earlier remarks are not aimed at Geoff's "big brother" sim, nor specifically at the IECC panel. The software companies putting out similar software number many. I'm sure their willingness to accept and implement user suggestions varies accordingly. Last edited: 21/11/2011 at 13:19 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 13:13 #23422 | |
Peter Bennet
5362 posts |
Generally there is one Berth per signal and the signal will be associated with that berth. Even in places with more than one berth there will normally be a signal (or exit arrow which si a signal for programming purposes) associated with the other one. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 13:20 #23423 | |
dmaze
88 posts |
" said:It just seems a lot more intuitive to me to shift-click the headcode one wants to interpose than to press I, type in a headcode, hunt for the right signal to click and then click it.I'm not sure I understand...I almost never need to interpose a headcode that's already on the map, and on some sims (e.g. Peterborough) you'll get an ARS complaint if there's a duplicate. Headcodes only really vanish on their own accord if I'm moving trains via shunt signals and there aren't associated berths (e.g. Sheffield), but the answer to the Sheffield FAQ is "move trains into the station platforms by assigning routes from main signal to main signal and ignore the shunts". The cases where I need to assign headcodes explicitly are generally (a) trains entering/leaving terminals that change headcodes for their next service, and (b) runarounds; and then it's pretty obvious where to click. In those cases, "I5X00 (click)" seems to work fine for me. Log in to reply |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 13:29 #23424 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Okay, maybe I used the term "interpose" incorrectly. I was really referring to the situation where a train changes its headcode as indicated in the "N:xxxx" directive in the train's Show Timetable window. I suppose there are sims where one can easily guess what the headcode will change to (Wesley Sub is one), but while learning the sim I prefer to check most of them before typing in the new one. (There ought to be an easy way of undoing the last headcode change, or retrieving the previous headcode. Maybe an option on the berth's context menu?) Last edited: 21/11/2011 at 13:30 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 13:30 #23425 | |
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postal
5191 posts |
" said:I am considering the wishes and acceptance of the whole community, which is why I am proposing making SimSig's interface easier for all to use.I'm afraid we'll have to differ then, because a consistent theme of your postings has been your desire to change things within SimSig in order to fit your model of how things should be. This is not a model with which I am comfortable. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following users said thank you: andyb0607, GoochyB |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 13:38 #23426 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:I'm afraid we'll have to differ then, because a consistent theme of your postings has been your desire to change things within SimSig in order to fit your model of how things should be. This is not a model with which I am comfortable.This particular section of the forum is not for preaching to the converted but the place where potential improvements can be suggested and discussed. If you are uncomfortable with this, please confine your posts to other sections. Log in to reply |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 13:39 #23427 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
" said:Why not do it all with just one left-click on the train by holding the Shift key down at the same time? Alternatively the Ctrl key (Ctrl+click) could be used instead.Certainly worth thinking about. I'll add it to the wish list. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: alan_s, maxand |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 13:44 #23428 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
" said:If the point is actually about your acceptance rather than acceptance per se, then perhaps I could ask you to consider the wishes and acceptance levels of the whole "community".I don't think you're making a good point. Max may not realize why some things are done the way they are, but not everything in SimSig is the way it is just to simulate a real interface. For example, interposing is often done in a completely different way on NX panels. Where there is a user interface suggestion that doesn't adversely affect authenticity, it's certainly worth looking at. And it's the newcomers who are most likely to make such suggestions. I'd like to read any suggestions along these lines, even if Geoff and I decide not to go ahead with them. (Equally, Max, please don't assume that we don't have reasons for what we do - your later postings are much better in this regard. I'm certainly aware of user interface design issues - they paid for my present house.) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 14:27 #23430 | |
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postal
5191 posts |
Yes, but at least we can differ in a civilised way and it all makes for stimulating debate. And in case anyone has got me wrong, please keep them coming Maxand as everyone needs to be prodded with a stick from time to time.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: Shift-click to Interpose 21/11/2011 at 16:12 #23434 | |
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dmaze
88 posts |
" said:In those cases, "I5X00 (click)" seems to work fine for me.Also, it's worth noting that (as far as I can tell) nowhere that the UI accepts a headcode is actually case-sensitive, so you can enter "i5x00" here. And if you have multiple workings where 2X001 is e.g. N:2X002, you don't need to interpose the new headcode; if it's N:2X011, you only need the first four "digits". Log in to reply |