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| Sort trains by exit locations? 18/12/2011 at 23:16 #25765 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
Would anyone else find the suggestion of sorting trains by exit locations on the Timetable List (F4) > Timetables tab useful? There is already a radio button for sorting by entry location. Advantages: 1) To someone learning a sim, listing all the exit locations would make it easier to learn where they are on the panel in advance. 2) On several occasions I've forgotten the train's headcode but remember where it exits, so listing exit locations would help to find the train. 3) Makes it easier to practice difficult exits by locating the trains for them. Thanks Max Last edited: 18/12/2011 at 23:17 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 18/12/2011 at 23:18 #25766 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
this does exist in newer code...ive seen at least one sim with it in.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 19/12/2011 at 01:33 #25778 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
As per Joe some of the newer sims have it. Lime Street definitely does.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 19/12/2011 at 07:45 #25782 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
I used to think I understood why all the sims were standalone compiled exe programs, but the user's inability to apply a core upgrade to all his sims leaves me scratching my head at this design decision. Obviously, as the number of sims increases, the longer it will take for each sim to be upgraded in its turn.
Last edited: 19/12/2011 at 07:50 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 19/12/2011 at 08:46 #25783 | |
GeoffM
6284 posts |
It was introduced a few months ago so all sims released since then will have it. As for why compiled exes, it gives much more flexibility to program realism than simply data alone. However, things have progressed since the early days and this isn't quite so applicable. Although we're nearly there, there is still some significant work to get a single exe to load sim data. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 19/12/2011 at 09:44 #25787 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:Although we're nearly there, there is still some significant work to get a single exe to load sim data. I'm really glad to read that this is one of SimSig's goals! I hope this means that not only will it be possible for interested users to create and self-test layout scripts (not merely timetables) that will be interpreted by the core software, other users of their scripts will be able to assist with debugging and customization as necessary. In this way, irritating layout design deficiencies, typos and obscure bugs stand a much greater chance of being discovered and cleaned up. Transferring the workload reduces the bottleneck. Such transparency is infinitely preferable to reading author statements such as Quote: There are no plans for an updated release of [sim name] in the foreseeable future, you have to work around with what you have. I think you know which sim I mean. As a side benefit, learning early in one's exposure to SimSig to create small test layouts teaches far more about its tools than simply playing with created panels. The only downside I can see is that initially this would need a rewrite of all sims to make them compatible with the new core software, not to mention a big update to the Wiki to explain the new interface. But following this, further changes to both would be small and incremental. Last edited: 19/12/2011 at 09:55 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 19/12/2011 at 10:18 #25789 | |
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GeoffM
6284 posts |
" said:Quote:Whoa, one step at a time.Although we're nearly there, there is still some significant work to get a single exe to load sim data. " said: Such transparency is infinitely preferable to reading author statements such asI don't, but the comment could apply to a number of sims. " said: As a side benefit, learning early in one's exposure to SimSig to create small test layouts teaches far more about its tools than simply playing with created panels.I don't know if you mean judging a tool by its editors but if that is the case, I don't think I've ever seen a commercially produced product with separate editors where the editor matches up to the quality of the main software. Same in industry tools. " said: The only downside I can see is that initially this would need a rewrite of all sims to make them compatible with the new core software, not to mention a big update to the Wiki to explain the new interface. But following this, further changes to both would be small and incremental.Yes, old sims won't automatically be released "just because" there is a single exe. They tend to have a lot of custom code that would need re-writing in data. The user interface shouldn't change much - more of an extra step to the startup screen (select sim, select scenario, select timetable, select options). SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Prof Jolly |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 19/12/2011 at 13:13 #25800 | |
postal
5190 posts |
" said:[The user interface shouldn't change much - more of an extra step to the startup screen (select sim, select scenario, select timetable, select options).Geoff Always good to hear of possible enhancements. I do hope that this new startup screen will be designed for the maximum possible efficency and that industry best practice is adopted when considering the exact sequence of key and click operations. JG “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 19/12/2011 at 23:54 #25833 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
GeoffM: Quote: maxand wrote: The difference with SimSig is that each sim appears to be so tightly integrated with its core code that you need a crowbar to separate them, whereas I was thinking more along the lines of a core "interpreter" (compiled and with proprietary code) into which can be fed a user-created script, complete with track icon coordinates, etc. This would need a parser (perhaps you have already written one). At the top end of the scale would be a drag-and-drop layout creator, similar to Train Dispatcher's Track Builder companion app. As one might imagine, the more user-friendly such an app is (and Track Builder is a pleasure to use), the more effort required to write it; I hardly expect volunteers to take it on themselves to do so. I would think that with all the excellent freeware plain text editors around that include syntax highlighting and are suitable for all types of programming, it could be almost as easy to create small layout scripts as timetable files. I would be happy to assist with the rewriting when the time comes. Last edited: 20/12/2011 at 00:13 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 20/12/2011 at 07:46 #25854 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
" said:Quote:Um, I don't believe that Geoff is intending to allow just anyone to write simulations. Apart from anything else, how could we continue to ensure the quality of what's produced?Although we're nearly there, there is still some significant work to get a single exe to load sim data. Quote: New sims are already tested by people other than the author for just this reason. The big disadvantage to eliminating custom code is that you're now limited in features to what the core code authors have had time to implement; sim authors can't experiment with new things. One other risk is that the sim author has misinterpreted the developers' manual and used a feature in a way that happened to work in one version of the core code but not in a later one. Users upgrading their core code would suddenly see things break. This is one reason why doing a "refresh" isn't trivial - you need to re-test lots of things. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Prof Jolly |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 20/12/2011 at 12:52 #25882 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
It's a bit like writing plugins for Firefox. As soon as Firefox moves onto the next version, half the plugins don't work and have to be upgraded. Clive: Quote: Apart from anything else, how could we continue to ensure the quality of what's produced? I would have thought the way to fix that would be only to make tried and tested sims that conform to SimSig policy available on the website, also to request any developer to sign a document saying he will not set up in opposition, etc. But all this authenticity stuff doesn't leave much room for creativity and fun. Surely there must be people within your developer group who develop their own sims that don't see the light of day and aren't necessarily accurate, just really enjoyable to play. If a sim is too accurate it runs the risk of becoming boring. Yes I know it requires a paradigm shift to see it this way, but I consider it all to be in a good cause. Last edited: 20/12/2011 at 12:55 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 20/12/2011 at 13:30 #25884 | |
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Prof Jolly
61 posts |
Max I think you are missing the point of SimSig in that it is supposed to be as close to the real thing as possible its a SIM no a game. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Meld, Sam Tugwell, postal, Steamer, delticfan |
| Re: Sort trains by exit locations? 21/12/2011 at 08:22 #25941 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
" said:That's incredibly hard and expensive to police. It's a lot easier to keep the relevant development tools under control than to chase down the creators of unauthorized sims. (I used to be involved in the fight against child abuse images - "child porn". The massed mights of national governments haven't been able to stop that even with multi-year prison sentences as deterrents. What makes you think that Geoff and I would be more successful?) Quote: Surely there must be people within your developer group who develop their own sims that don't see the light of day and aren't necessarily accurate, just really enjoyable to play.Actually I very much doubt it. I think you vastly underestimate the effort required to generate a sim that's worth playing. I have two sims that I wrote for myself and are never going to see the light of day. I'd send you a copy, but I think you'd find them incredibly boring. They're for testing out bugs and feature changes in the core code rather than for play as such. So one, for example, contains one circular track, five signals, no stations, and 58 automatic level crossings. Quote: If a sim is too accurate it runs the risk of becoming boring.I think you're in a minority of one here. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Meld, kbarber, Prof Jolly |