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| Berlin Trams 22/01/2012 at 20:06 #27987 | |
Laryk
56 posts |
Does anyone here know whether the Berlin Tram network is controlled in the equivalent of an IECC or is it all automatic? If it is manually controlled, how feasible would a Simsig simulation of it be? Just curious 
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| Re: Berlin Trams 22/01/2012 at 20:14 #27989 | |
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MikeW
65 posts |
I spend a week in Berlin every year (best city in the world!) and from what I can see from observing the drivers it's virtually all line of sight stuff, with the trams themselves setting points via a lever on the console. There are a few sections of single track, which appear to have first-come-first-served automatic signalling (the usual tram horizontal white bar versus vertical white bar aspects). At complicated crossings there are tram signals which seem to mirror the state of the points set as per above. This is all just from (hopefully intelligent) layman observation, so may be complete tosh. I've looked at Schwandl's Tram Atlas Deutschland and there's no mention of any centralised control, so I suspect that what I've said here is correct, but wouldn't bet my pension on it (but given what George Osbourne is doing, it might be a good bet!). Mike Log in to reply |
| Re: Berlin Trams 22/01/2012 at 20:21 #27990 | |
Steamer
3923 posts 
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Laryk said:If it is manually controlled, how feasible would a Simsig simulation of it be?Highly unlikely, I'm afraid. For a start, most of SimSig's development team is UK-based, so travelling there would be expensive and difficult. Also, SimSig (and it's big brother, TRESim) has a long relationship with Network Rail, so data is (relatively) easy to get hold of, whereas getting data off a foreign company would be very difficult. Also, SimSig is geared towards UK rules and regs., which are probably different to German rules, so building a German simulation would present significant difficulties. Finally, the collective knowledge of SimSig's development team has a deep understanding of the finer points of UK signalling, which it (probably) doesn't have for German signalling. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Re: Berlin Trams 22/01/2012 at 20:34 #27992 | |
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Laryk
56 posts |
Shame. I forget that it's not as simple as drawing some lines and adding some signals :( Mike - It's certainly the best City I've ever visited! Steamer - So if you wanted a proper realistic sim of an International area it would require rebuilding of the Core code, as well as trying to legally obtain mountains of data? Log in to reply |
| Re: Berlin Trams 22/01/2012 at 21:07 #28001 | |
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Steamer
3923 posts
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Laryk said:Steamer - So if you wanted a proper realistic sim of an International area it would require rebuilding of the Core code I'm not a developer, so I can't say for sure, but the existing code may have to be altered to cover for things that are allowed in Germany but not the UK, and vice-versa. Laryk said: as well as trying to legally obtain mountains of data? Yes. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Re: Berlin Trams 25/01/2012 at 21:20 #28226 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
As someone else who has spent time in Berlin recently, I don't think the trams do seem to have any sort of centralised signalling system - there are signals linked with the traffic lights with white bars for stop/go/route indication, and stencil-illuminated letters for other things (I think there's an "A" signal which seemed mean "wait with doors open", where there is a signal at a stop) Most of the tram lines, though, have long stretches of reserved track in the central reservations of roads, with no signalling at all. As for the other lines, the U-Bahn has its own signalling system, and I recommend the U-Bahn Museum located in the former Olympia-Stadion signalbox. The DB-owned lines, main line and S-bahn, largely use the current "KS" colour light signalling system, which isn't actually that dissimilar to British signalling in its basic aspects, albeit with the addition of theatre-aspect numerals at a lot of signals to show permitted speeds. You can still see the old East German colour light aspects in some locations (such as Schönefeld Airport station), and there are a surprising number of semaphores still in freight yards. Log in to reply |
| Re: Berlin Trams 25/01/2012 at 21:47 #28228 | |
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Laryk
56 posts |
I would have loved to visit the U-Bahn museum when I was there - I was with friends who weren't that interested, though. :angry: Never really understood German signals - and wikipedia's entry is horribly complex. Playing TS 2012 I just know that green 'uns are good and red 'uns are bad...  What does the "KS" stand for? I couldn't find a mention of it anywhere in my (admittedly brief) search. Last edited: 25/01/2012 at 21:48 by Laryk Log in to reply |
| Re: Berlin Trams 25/01/2012 at 23:20 #28232 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
The U-Bahn museum is only open one Saturday a month - you have to time your visits carefully! KS stands for "Kombinationssignale", or "Combined Signals" - referring to the fact that a single signal head is used for both stop and distant purposes. The basic aspects are red = stop; yellow = proceed at restricted speed, next signal red; flashing green = proceed, next signal yellow or restricted speed; steady green = proceed! There are also white numerals (maximum speed here) and yellow numerals (maximum speed at next signal) - the number displayed is a tenth of the actual speed limit - and I think a green signal can still mean "proceed at restricted speed" if it has a white numeral with it. I'm not sure I completely understand the whole system though - see http://www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/shks.htm for a more expert but still confusing explanation. Log in to reply |