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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked?

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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 24/11/2009 at 18:24 #296
Underwood
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Hi all,

I am stuck on part of my TT writing. Basically, I am wondering what actually happens when a landslide happens? Say tommorow at 0500, a landslide hit Royal Oak (paddington) now I know thats stupid and the chances of that are low, but is just an example. Now lets also say part the Reading line is closed so diversions to Waterloo won't happen, so theres no diversionary alternatives. Would HSTs just terminate at Reading/slough and wait for ages to pick up their normal diagram from Reading (which would involve over an hours wait)? Or would they just swap over to another diagram?

On top of that, would the TRUST show it as running to Paddington, but just won't actually go there?


I am planning such ideas in a new TT release due, but can't go any further withought wondering what happens on such last minute events. The thing is the 'landslide' is south of a two platform station, and holding units there for at least 40 minutes until they can pick up the return diagram as booked off that station would hold things up.


Any help appreciated!



Cheers,

James.

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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 24/11/2009 at 18:24 #4489
Underwood
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669 posts
Hi all,

I am stuck on part of my TT writing. Basically, I am wondering what actually happens when a landslide happens? Say tommorow at 0500, a landslide hit Royal Oak (paddington) now I know thats stupid and the chances of that are low, but is just an example. Now lets also say part the Reading line is closed so diversions to Waterloo won't happen, so theres no diversionary alternatives. Would HSTs just terminate at Reading/slough and wait for ages to pick up their normal diagram from Reading (which would involve over an hours wait)? Or would they just swap over to another diagram?

On top of that, would the TRUST show it as running to Paddington, but just won't actually go there?


I am planning such ideas in a new TT release due, but can't go any further withought wondering what happens on such last minute events. The thing is the 'landslide' is south of a two platform station, and holding units there for at least 40 minutes until they can pick up the return diagram as booked off that station would hold things up.


Any help appreciated!



Cheers,

James.

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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 24/11/2009 at 18:48 #4492
Noisynoel
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957 posts
Ahh, my area of expertise as I do this for a living.

There are usually set 'plans' for such circumstances which will hav complete sets of diagrams, train crew workings etc etc, the problem with this is that they need to be implemented at the start of the day. Unfortunatly the rest of the real world operates on it's own timescales, and incidents happen after the service has started. As a result, the way the service is dealt with depends on what combination of people are in control at the time, because evryone will work differently. The biggest consideration in any event of this kind is the fact that you are dealing with human beings.. A HST will go where you want it when you want it providing that the human element (The crew) are happy to do it. They may be running out of hours, want a PNB or numerous other things, this is the human element. Additioanlly whilst every HST has a diagram, every driver & guard will have one and chances are that when a train gets to Paddington, then the HST forms 1 service, a driver works a 2nd, whilst the guard does something tottaly differengt. This makes it hard for the controller to do any thing but to deal with each train on an individual basis.
In the particular scenario that you suggest, I, personally would aim to use the stock & crew to return on the next available working (Stepping up) the stock and crew. The crew could then come off at Reading to be replaced with the booked crew (If they are not trapped at Padd!!), and wait for their own booked service.
With regards to TRUST, once a train reaches reading it will be cancelled of as that is what is actually happening.
If you are reaaly interested I would suggest a visit to a control office, drop me a PM and tell me where you are & I'll give you some numbers..

Noel

Noisynoel
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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 24/11/2009 at 19:22 #4495
Underwood
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Hello Noel

I think I get it, so e.g Bridgwater has a landslide, voyagers can divert via Westbury, south west HSTs could, FGW Taunton locals would be pointless diverting the long way so Weston-super-mare is the closest possible with reverse opportunities.

So say a Taunton serivce arrives at Weston 10am, booked at Taunton 10:30, depart 10:40, Weston arrive 11:10...now the service can only go as far as Weston, but waiting around from 10:00 - 11:10 could block it all up. So I guess it could instead do the 10:10 departure, an hour earlier than its diagram but goes to Cardiff anyway, like the 11:10 would (all example times btw)

Am I on the right lines here?

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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 24/11/2009 at 19:27 #4496
Noisynoel
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From a stock point of biew your spot on. However, if it is south of Bridgewater, I'd expect to turn the trains round there. Highbridge & Burnham would also be a possibility as you can route from the Down Main into the DGL via the platform, however, SIMSIG would see it as routing a passenger train onto a freight line and penalise you. The aim would be to get the train as close as possible to make the busitution as short as possible.
Noisynoel
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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 24/11/2009 at 19:36 #4497
Underwood
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Ahhh forgot about the Highbridge loop, the one that the FGW Highbridge starter service uses. Doesn't matter about the penatly really, with the diversions going on, things are going to be late irrelavent to knock your score down.

by the way noel, there is no 'e' in Bridgwater

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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 24/11/2009 at 20:13 #4498
Noisynoel
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Underwood said:


by the way noel, there is no 'e' in Bridgwater :P
It's been a lonnnnnnng day!=(

Noisynoel
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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 25/11/2009 at 15:05 #4528
Underwood
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Just another thought with the Highbridge reverse, it would terminate on the up line, but to go to the loop would the headcode change to 5Zxx? Say one terminated as 2D03 from Cardiff, would it be 5Z03 to Highbridge loop and back to the station, then return obviously as whatever (2U16 say)?
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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 25/11/2009 at 16:40 #4529
JamesN
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TBH a short shunt like that may not even have it's own working, would be 2D03 to the Loop, and 2U16 from the loop.
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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 25/11/2009 at 17:12 #4531
GeoffM
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4367 posts
Underwood said:
Would HSTs just terminate at Reading/slough and wait for ages to pick up their normal diagram from Reading (which would involve over an hours wait)? Or would they just swap over to another diagram?
I've seen HSTs turf out passengers at Reading and then run empty to Maidenhead before reversing back, forming a queue of outbound HSTs. But that's just one of many possible solutions.

SimSig Boss
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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 25/11/2009 at 21:11 #4541
kbarber
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JamesN said:
TBH a short shunt like that may not even have it's own working, would be 2D03 to the Loop, and 2U16 from the loop.

Simsig would need a new timetable creating which the train would then be assigned to run to, that's the only way to get it in & out of the loop (or wherever). There's no particular need for the train description on the screen to be the same as the timetable the train is running to, so JamesN probably has the right idea there (but Underwood has got it in terms of making the trains actually go). IRL there would be a lot of situations where a movement might have no description at all (local light engine movements, or a shunt perhaps) - the signalman would just rely on his own awareness of what was happening rather than needing to mess around interposing & clearing out for a silly little 30sec move.

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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 25/11/2009 at 21:28 #4542
Noisynoel
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In Simsig you can terminate the train at Highbridge & Burnham to form it's next working, ecs into & out of the loop, then form next working from platform. For example...
2Z90 Bristol - Higbridge & Burnham
to form
5Z91 Highbridge - Highbridge Loop - Higbridge
to form
2Z91 Highbridge - Bristol

Noisynoel
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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 25/11/2009 at 23:37 #4545
Underwood
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So both ways could be done, it is easier with the same headcode in my eyes, as you say saves messing around with the headcode for a short move. And yes I know of some moves that don't have headcodes, like the shunts in and out of Westbury Yard.

Geoff - Ahhh thats where they would run off to, that is providing the line is open then (well it can either be the slow or fast, not often both are closed off). I guess there is the various sidings that one could reverse into too?


I'll have the down headcode from BTM to the loop itself, and have the up headcode start from the loop all the way back up to BTM etc, much easier.


Thank you for the replies and suggestions :)



Cheers,

James.

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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 26/11/2009 at 00:14 #4546
postal
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As a general note in regard to SimSig rather than what happens in actual practice, you need to consider whether passenger trains are authorised to use the loop or siding where you wish to reverse. If it a loop or siding which is not signalled to passenger specification and you route a class 1 or 2, you will probably get a warning message and penalties for routing a passenger train over a freight only route. In that case you would need to take the hit or timetable a non-passenger movement like a class 5 for the move over the restricted section.
"He knows nothing and thinks he knows everything. That points clearly to a political career." - George Bernard Shaw (26/07/1856 - 02/11/1950), Irish Dramatist and Playwright
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What happens to diagrams if a line is blocked? 26/11/2009 at 00:41 #4548
JamesN
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They could Leave Reading on Main or Reliefs, but the only place you can reverse an HST at Maidenhead is in Platform 4, so would need Reliefs between Twyford West and Maidenhead to be open.

Can also reverse at Twyford (Up Relief) or Kennet Junction (Just to the East of Reading - Up Main or Either Up/Dn Relief)

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