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| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 13:28 #3019 | |
GeoffM
6287 posts |
There is a short section of road near us that is sign posted "Buses only" - I don't know if that differs from a bus lane. Presumably it's to stop it becoming a through road and rat run. Since my wife insists on driving through it, I thought she ought to know the penalties - if any - for doing so. Try as I might I can't find anything specific; this would be for the Swindon area. To be fair to her, it does shave nearly a mile off most journeys, something the government keep telling us to do, and buses aren't always an option (no Sunday or evening services for starters). Interestingly "they" have installed a traffic census strip across the road. I would have thought it would be easier to stand beside the road for 5 minutes and watch the constant stream of non-bus traffic through it. Cars even park there! SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 13:28 #15731 | |
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GeoffM
6287 posts |
There is a short section of road near us that is sign posted "Buses only" - I don't know if that differs from a bus lane. Presumably it's to stop it becoming a through road and rat run. Since my wife insists on driving through it, I thought she ought to know the penalties - if any - for doing so. Try as I might I can't find anything specific; this would be for the Swindon area. To be fair to her, it does shave nearly a mile off most journeys, something the government keep telling us to do, and buses aren't always an option (no Sunday or evening services for starters). Interestingly "they" have installed a traffic census strip across the road. I would have thought it would be easier to stand beside the road for 5 minutes and watch the constant stream of non-bus traffic through it. Cars even park there! SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 13:56 #15733 | |
andyb0607
260 posts |
As I understood it normal bus lanes also allow coaches, taxi's and cycles. If it states buses only it is designated for local bus services only. An ex colleague of mine got busted in one of these lanes and the penalty was the same as a normal bus lane Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 14:58 #15735 | |
AndyG
1835 posts |
If it is a 'bus only' ROAD rather than just a bus-lane, it will require some prohibitory signs, eg 'No motor vehicles' (ie motorbike leaping over car in red circle) or 'No Entry', with an "Except buses" auxiliary plate underneath. It will also need a Traffic Regulation Order for it to be enforceable. There must be some form of prohibitation sign (ie within a red circular border), not just a blue rectangular sign saying @Buses only'. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 15:10 #15736 | |
postal
5191 posts 
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Geoff Transport Act 2000, Para 144 includes: "(5)And an area of road is or forms part of a bus lane if the order provides that it may be used—(a)only by buses (or a particular description of bus), or(b)only by buses (or a particular description of bus) and some other class or classes of vehicular traffic." The whole act is on line here. There is then a Statutory Instrument on line here which lays out how the local authority may levy penalties on those who use a designated bus lane. On the basis of the Transport Act definition, it looks like the local authority can classify one of the "bus only" chicanes as a bus lane within the meaning of the act and then levy penalties accordingly. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 15:14 #15739 | |
flymo
135 posts |
Indeed there are strict rules and regulations about what sort of signs can be used. This Traffic sign manual shows the type of signage that is approved for use. Are there any pictures of the signage at the start of the bus street to see if it is in anyway enforceable?
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| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 15:27 #15741 | |
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AndyG
1835 posts |
I think Geoff's original query relates to a bus-only road, as opposed to a bus-lane. A bus-lane only restricts vehicles from part of the road, not a complete prohibition. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 16:00 #15743 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
Got a point about the government wanting us to use transport, yet trying to get to the Swindon & Cricklade on Bank Holiday Monday was a pain as the 15/15A does not run...and if it does run on a weekday then you need to ensure you have the exact fare providing you know what it is in the first place...I got a Wiltshire Day Rover from Trowbridge to avoid that problem. So much better information screens and types of systems are needed to make bus travel more easier...I can't see that happening though? Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 16:23 #15744 | |
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Sam Tugwell
493 posts |
Underwood said:Got a point about the government wanting us to use transport, yet trying to get to the Swindon & Cricklade on Bank Holiday Monday was a pain as the 15/15A does not run...and if it does run on a weekday then you need to ensure you have the exact fare providing you know what it is in the first placeSimilar thing in Paignton. The 88 which runs from Paignton - Newton Abbot via Totnes runs every 2 hours (if your lucky) and only on weekdays. I use this occaisionally to travel to the South Devon Railway at Buckfastleigh (or Totnes). Id vouch for a new type of system, but Id dread to think how much it would effort it would take to not only sort out the original system, but then to improve it. "Signalman Exeter" Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 17:04 #15745 | |
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Quizman
276 posts |
Oh dear this is taking me out of retirement! Sam Tugwell said: Are there any pictures of the signage at the start of the bus street to see if it is in anyway enforceable? A number of points can be made here 1. Even if the local highway authority (normally the local council or county council) have made a valid TRO it does not necessarily mean that they enforce it. and how would they enforce it? 2. Normally bus lane/bus only routes would be enforced by fixed/mobile CCTV in which case there should be the appropriate TSRGD 'camera enforcement' sign. If it doesn't then it ain't legal. 3. Can enforcement be done by a civil enforcement officer - well yes but he would have to run after the cars and jump on the bonnet to affix the penalty charge notice! Therefore not very likely. It seems that a lot of councils toying with cost cutting exercises will not regularly carry out enforcement unless it proves to be 'in the interest of road safety' or cost effective in terms of manning. 4. Without CCTV the only way it could be enforced would be by a civil enforcement officer accompanied by a police constable (in uniform) who could actually stop a vehicle for the infringement and have a pcn issued. That again would be very rare these days in terms of cost of manning, effectiveness of police time etc. DISCLAIMER - there are only my thoughts and in no way encourages motorists to infringe traffic regulations! LOL Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 18:53 #15750 | |
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GeoffM
6287 posts |
andyb0607 said:As I understood it normal bus lanes also allow coaches, taxi's and cycles.I think that must be a local thing as taxis have only recently been allowed into bus lanes in Swindon recently. AndyG said: If it is a 'bus only' ROAD rather than just a bus-lane, it will require some prohibitory signs, eg 'No motor vehicles' (ie motorbike leaping over car in red circle) or 'No Entry', with an "Except buses" auxiliary plate underneath. It will also need a Traffic Regulation Order for it to be enforceable.Interesting - but bus lanes are also blue signs and they're definitely enforceable. AndyG said: I think Geoff's original query relates to a bus-only road, as opposed to a bus-lane.Correct. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 19:05 #15751 | |
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GeoffM
6287 posts |
 Interesting, I'm sure there was a blue "Buses only" sign on the first lamppost in the road itself! Maybe it got taken down. As you can see in the foreground, a similar sign has been covered up. Also, there is no advance warning sign on the road to the left which - if I'm led to believe by other forums - should be there for it to be enforceable. The text on the red part of the road says "Bus only". I'm not entirely sure the road has been adopted which would make a huge difference (I assumed it had, but it's either been through, or just going through, the process of adoption). SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 19:09 #15752 | |
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GeoffM
6287 posts |
Update: There was a sign, albeit in a different place: http://www.haydonend.co.uk/index.php?itemid=134 In fact there's a whole saga, drama, whatever going on on that site about this very bit of road! http://haydonend.co.uk/index.php?itemid=155 Anyway, it would seem that it's not enforceable - for now. I won't tell the wife. :cool: SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 19:11 #15753 | |
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AndyG
1835 posts |
wrong photo methinks - looks like Peterborough 2010 meet to me.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 19:15 #15754 | |
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GeoffM
6287 posts |
Underwood said:Got a point about the government wanting us to use transport, yet trying to get to the Swindon & Cricklade on Bank Holiday Monday was a pain as the 15/15A does not run...and if it does run on a weekday then you need to ensure you have the exact fare providing you know what it is in the first place...I got a Wiltshire Day Rover from Trowbridge to avoid that problem.If you come by train, get a Swindon PlusBus. Saves you 70p off the bus fare. I'm surprised you even got to the S&C by bus - it's in the middle of nowhere! Underwood said: So much better information screens and types of systems are needed to make bus travel more easier...I can't see that happening though?Actually, several bus stops do have electronic signs in Swindon. I haven't worked out whether they're actually live or just a timetable service - though buses do get knocked off the list fairly quickly after a bus leaves, so maybe they are linked to the buses themselves indirectly. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 19:15 #15755 | |
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GeoffM
6287 posts |
AndyG said:wrong photo methinks - looks like Peterborough 2010 meet to me.Yes, no idea how that got there! Fixed already. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 20:59 #15758 | |
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postal
5191 posts
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AndyG said:I think Geoff's original query relates to a bus-only road, as opposed to a bus-lane.I'm not a lawyer, but my reading of the Act I quoted in a previous post is that a local authority can designate as much or as little of the width of the road as they see fit as a bus lane so the bus-only road is only a bit of road where the local authority has deemed the whole width of the road to be a bus lane. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 21:46 #15759 | |
Peter Bennet
5362 posts |
postal said:AndyG said:That's my reading of the legislation- 144(5) is defining a bus lane "An area of road is [..] a bus lane ....."- there is nothing in 162 which would be the obvious place otherwise.I think Geoff's original query relates to a bus-only road, as opposed to a bus-lane.I'm not a lawyer, but my reading of the Act I quoted in a previous post is that a local authority can designate as much or as little of the width of the road as they see fit as a bus lane so the bus-only road is only a bit of road where the local authority has deemed the whole width of the road to be a bus lane. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 11/05/2011 at 23:10 #15761 | |
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AndyG
1835 posts |
Not sure how much things have changed since my time (and that was before Quizman did the role at RBK  ),but there could be 2 areas of legislation that can be used:1) a bus-lane, restricting other vehicles from using a portion of the road, but allowing movement in the same direction; 2) a traffic regulation order which can prohibit specified types of vehicle from proceeding along that highway in one or both direction (akin to weight/width/type). 1) would be indicated by road markings & blue rectangular signs, but 2) would more likely be signed with red border regularity signs, indeed that is what I suspect has been blanked out in Geoff's photo. In other words, there is more than 1 way of achieving the end result. I don't know whether you get points on you licence for contravention of 1), but you certainly would be liable for offences under 2) I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 12/05/2011 at 05:46 #15764 | |
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mfloyd
186 posts |
Andy, for Point 1), no points but a fixed penalty notice. I know this is definately true in Sheffield as they have camera's watching the lanes to which one of my staff fell foul!
Ripley, Derbyshire Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 12/05/2011 at 08:42 #15767 | |
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Peter Bennet
5362 posts |
Section 144 (TA 2000) is headed up "Civil penalties...." which generally means it's not a police matter- though maybe other RTAct rules could be broken- Driving without due care an attention (of the sign). That would put it on a par with (say) parking rather than (say) speeding. The exact details should be within the Order which appears, at this time, not to have been laid. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 12/05/2011 at 09:52 #15769 | |
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AndyG
1835 posts |
Depends whether it's done under S144, or other powers.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 12/05/2011 at 12:06 #15770 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
GeoffM said:I haven't worked out whether they're actually live or just a timetable serviceThe ones in Cambridge show "14:26" if they're just working off the timetable, and "3 mins" if they're basing it on live reports. You often see a mix on the same sign. Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 12/05/2011 at 15:54 #15772 | |
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mfloyd
186 posts |
Live in Derby, I think they call it Star Tracker or something. All the Nottingham-Derby routes have trackers on the buses with real time info.
Ripley, Derbyshire Log in to reply |
| "Buses only" 12/05/2011 at 16:11 #15773 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
GeoffM said:Underwood said:Well we did from an early start on a Saturday on my 24th birthday trip when the newer south extension opened on the 5th March. Start here at 7am on the first 49 (Stagecoach) to Swindon then the 15A to Oakhurst Way then around a 7 minute walk to the railway.Got a point about the government wanting us to use transport, yet trying to get to the Swindon & Cricklade on Bank Holiday Monday was a pain as the 15/15A does not run...and if it does run on a weekday then you need to ensure you have the exact fare providing you know what it is in the first place...I got a Wiltshire Day Rover from Trowbridge to avoid that problem.If you come by train, get a Swindon PlusBus. Saves you 70p off the bus fare. I'm surprised you even got to the S&C by bus - it's in the middle of nowhere! I have seen the info boards at Swindon yes, shame Trowbridge only has one and that's for the 264/265 Warminster to/from Bath services only, the Chippenham ones don't which can be irritating especially when waiting for a Faresaver service, as I have been left behind with not a Faresaver bus in sight, so I had no idea if it was cancelled or if it left early (which they do occasionally do, I saw the bus I needed at Melksham fly off the stop to Trowbridge 10 minutes early!) Log in to reply |