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Scunthorpe PSB sim

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Released > South Humberside > Scunthorpe PSB sim

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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 15:57 #34280
Lardybiker
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*NOTE: Before I say anything further, this is a discussion. It does not mean the sim will change in any way. I'd just like to see peoples thoughts on the matter are.....

So, one feature of the sim has been bandied about from time to time since it's inception and that is whether Scunthorpe PSB should be a stand-alone sim. Here are the options:
1) Leave it as it is.
2) Completely split the sim and have a Scunthorpe sim and a South Humberside sim.
3) A hybrid where Scunthorpe is a stand alone sim but is still part of South Humberside.

Option (2) would give you two completely separate sims that could be chained together but would otherwise be completely separate. Option (3) would make Scunthorpe and South Humberside like Royston and Cambridge with Scunthorpe being the smaller sim that can be run on it's own but it's data is also part of the larger South Humberside sim.

What would be your preference and why?

Remember, this about how you would prefer to see the sim. There is no right answer and no wrong answer (as I am sure peoples opinions will be different.....maybe).

Oh...and if my options don't cover what you'd like, then feel free to add your own...

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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 16:24 #34282
Sacro
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1110 posts
4) Split off Scunthorpe and rename the original bit North Lincolnshire
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The following user said thank you: guidomcc
Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 17:06 #34286
Splodge
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Option 3 for me - I can manage South Humberside single player so wouldn't want to see Scunthorpe disappear; however I think Scunthorpe PSB would be a decent beginners sim with run-rounds, shunts and a reasonably busy station.
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 17:08 #34287
Controller#72
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Leave it as it is.

A hybrid would be useful for newcomer, that would be the only thing. To compare with Royston, I played Royston one time and then only the Cambridge sim, because Royston alone was not a real challenge, not to say boring. I think the developer time can be spent more useful in debugging the big sim.

For the same reason, I won't prefer two stand alone sims. There is more developer-time for the "one" sim, isn't it?
As splitted sims they are a less challenge, because they are smaller. Ok, I must say, that I play the humberside sim most time in half speed to handle it, but you have more variety and challenge when handling Immingham and Scunthorpe panels together.
And at least for multiplayer sessions, it is better to have both interesting panels like Scunthorpe and Immingham in one sim. Although, as two sims they can be chained, my experience shows, that sims are rarely chained in sessions. And often the chaining doesn't work.

So, if a big sim won't lead to a big waiting time for the update (I did not ask!!! ), I can wait for the update. If it means, that I have to wait one more year, maybe then the sims should be split to release at least the Immingham and adjacent parts as a standalone sim (when they are ready) and later Scunthorpe, when this is worked out.

So, leave it as it is, don't waste the time in doing a new stand alone sim or hybrid.

By the way, great job you do here -- and of course all other SimSiggers who do sims and write TT and all the other necessary stuff to run such a project and that for free for the users. Hm, yes, I know, I should do a donation ... :whistle:

Greetings from Germany and forgive me my bad english (hope you understand all).

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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 17:33 #34288
Lardybiker
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Greetings to Germany from the US SimSig really is multi-national these days isn't it!!!)....

Thanks for your kind words and may I add your English is far better than my German!!! "Ich bin dreizehn yahr alt" is about as much as I can remember...I am three times that old now!!

Anyway....Two sims is just as easy as one big one. In some respects, easier, as the data sets are completely separate and there is less to do on any one sim. The hybrid is the most complicated as it requires some special data to allow a Scunthorpe sim to be built from the South Humberside data (you wouldn't want two sets of Scunthorpe data as that is a nightmare to try and support). This may sound easy BUT the downside is the data with the special coding in it means I won't be able to edit the sim data in the normal may so supporting the sims like this is a lot harder.

I understand your comments on chaining particularly when used in multiplayer games. My only comment is that as I would be in control of both sims, the chaining not working would be easier to deal with.

Last edited: 24/07/2012 at 17:35 by Lardybiker
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 17:37 #34289
jc92
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i would agree with the hybrid option. i personally have preference for smaller sims anyway, but i think scunthorpe would make a managable and interesting sim on its own (especially if west yard was still open.) and there is plenty to do with appleby/elsham and Keadby canal jcn to supervise.

i find sth humbs slightly too large to run after 7am on my own with the 2012 hybrid. potentially this is an argument for permanently splitting the sim, which would make regulation between the two sims interesting as they will no longer be able to see each other.

now lets not get into my opinion that barnetby panel or grimsby panel would make good standalone....

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 17:39 #34290
guidomcc
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246 posts
As I type this I find it offensive, please don't :P
South Humberside is a unique imagining as a sim, what with the 'what it would look like as IECC' mantra. I really do like it, as it has lots of regulation, level crossings and shunting all on one (comparably) small panel. As with every sim, there were going to be bugs and mistakes, such as the Immingham TIPLOCs, and drivers calling up wrong route.
Once these have been fixed, I'll call for a Scunthorpe sim; but until then I want, as do you, for South Humberside, my favourite simulatio,n to be as close to perfect as it can be. Keep up the good work!

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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 17:57 #34291
Forest Pines
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I would go for options 1 or 3 - I find it an easy single-player sim, so splitting it up would make it a bit too dull.
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 17:57 #34292
Noisynoel
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My two pence worth - leave it as it is.. it ain't broke so don't fix it, besides you have other things to occupy your time ;-)
Noisynoel
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 18:23 #34293
MJD
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149 posts
Keep it as is.

Option 1 for me.

Many thanks for the sim and the work involved by you and the many testers.

Mike.
Last edited: 24/07/2012 at 18:24 by MJD
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 18:45 #34294
Dick
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Option 1 for me. Once you get your head around where all the locations are its a pretty easy sim to run single handed
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 18:46 #34295
jc92
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i must be the only person who plays with TORR off and autolower not on
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 18:52 #34296
58050
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Chris I see there has been alot of chit-chat about South Humberside sim namely West Burton PS, Scunthorpe etc etc. As I am waiting to do a 1980s era timetable for this sim & one thing I forgot to bring to the meet we had in Leicester in February was my copy of Eastern Region Sectional Appendix Southern Section dated February 1982. Apart from giving all the relevant data for all the lines covered by the South Humberside/Worksop sims it also gives explanations of how various locations such as Scunthorpe, Immingham, Santon & West Burton PS to name a few operated. So if you would like me to scan them for you & e-mail them to you please let me know. It woul;d compliment the signaling information you scanned of mine to do with Immingham. There's also info about Keady Canal & the steel works at Scunthorpe Let me know.
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 18:55 #34297
58050
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You do make life difficult for yourself Joe.
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 19:01 #34298
onlydjw
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Option 1 for me as a tester of any developments.

Only have to do everything twice (once the first time, and then re-test when the issue is actually fixed the second time)!

Scunthorpe has it's complications in an older TT, and can be fairly basic in a modern TT, but would still probably not be a beginners type sim on it's own, and would leave South Humbs with a busy Immingham panel, moderate Ulceby & Barnetby, and quieter Gainsborough and Grimsby panels - the Scunny panels add a lot to the sim.

I think with the changes that have been made in the development versions I've tested (and broken before anyone asks "how long?"), it should make for a manageable solo player sim, and also a challenging multiplayer sim with the correct timetable (on which note I look forward to being able to produce a more challenging hybrid TT sometime before the Rio olympics)!

God bless, Daniel Wilson
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 19:56 #34299
Lardybiker
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771 posts
" said:

Only have to do everything twice (once the first time, and then re-test when the issue is actually fixed the second time)!

Not necessarily true. With a hybrid sim, you'd only have to test the full sim once as the smaller Scunthorpe sim would be built using the same data set as the main sim. If South Humberside all works, the only thing to check on the Scunthorpe sim is the layout as everything else will be the same.


" said:

I think with the changes that have been made in the development versions I've tested (and broken before anyone asks "how long?"), it should make for a manageable solo player sim, and also a challenging multiplayer sim with the correct timetable (on which note I look forward to being able to produce a more challenging hybrid TT sometime before the Rio olympics)!

That's a good point. The version we have now gives the user ultimate control over how complicated the sim is to run. It should make it easier for single player mode, or you can add the more complicated stuff for the multi-play (unless you are Joe in which case you just run it fully complicated on your own!!)

Last edited: 25/07/2012 at 02:01 by Lardybiker
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 19:57 #34300
Lardybiker
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771 posts
" said:
Chris I see there has been alot of chit-chat about South Humberside sim namely West Burton PS, Scunthorpe etc etc. As I am waiting to do a 1980s era timetable for this sim & one thing I forgot to bring to the meet we had in Leicester in February was my copy of Eastern Region Sectional Appendix Southern Section dated February 1982. Apart from giving all the relevant data for all the lines covered by the South Humberside/Worksop sims it also gives explanations of how various locations such as Scunthorpe, Immingham, Santon & West Burton PS to name a few operated. So if you would like me to scan them for you & e-mail them to you please let me know. It woul;d compliment the signaling information you scanned of mine to do with Immingham. There's also info about Keady Canal & the steel works at Scunthorpe Let me know.

Pascal, do you really need me to answer that? Of course I'll take any data you can pass on!!!

Last edited: 24/07/2012 at 19:57 by Lardybiker
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 24/07/2012 at 20:34 #34301
58050
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OK Chris, I will go to the library & scan all the relevant pages for you on Thursday. If & when you get the 1980s era sorted, I would appreciate an early copy to start writing the 1983-1984 timetable that i started with the 1st release version & subsequently advised you about the problems encountered with it.
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 25/07/2012 at 02:12 #34310
BarryM
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Chris : Number 1.

Cheers
Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 25/07/2012 at 10:26 #34313
58050
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Chris, after sifting through all my Eastern Region Sectional Appendixes I can now confirm the following which I shall scan & e-mail to you tomorrow-

Network Rail London North Eastern Region Sectional Appendux Section No.4 dated December, 2003. Covering Nunnery Main Line Jn to Cleethorpes, Marsh West Jn to Humber Road Jn, Killingholme to Ulceby North Jn, Barton on Humber to Brocklesby Jn, Great Coates No.1 to Union Dock, Ulceby South Jn to Habrough Jn, Wrawby Jn to Pelham Street Jn, Wrawby Jn to Marshgate Jn, Scunthorpe Trent Jn to Roxby & Scunthorpe Trent Jn to Foreign Ore Branch.

British Railways Eastern Region Sectional Appendix Section No.4 dated October, 1989 also covering all of the above routes.

British Railways Eastern Region Sectional Appendix Southern Area dated February, 1982 also covering all of the above lines.

I would imagine with all that lot Chrios you should be able to cover the 1980s, 1990s & modern eras for South Humberside sim.

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Scunthorpe PSB sim 25/07/2012 at 12:32 #34320
Richard42
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There are only a few sims (IMHO) that are challenging but manageable (which to me infers scrolly) for a single player - South Humberside is one (also Euston, Exeter, Gloucester, Swindid, Westbury and Saltley until the commuters wake up!). It's fine as it is; splitting it would make it considerably less challenging and therefore less interesting.
Last edited: 25/07/2012 at 12:33 by Richard42
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 25/07/2012 at 13:03 #34321
RichardG
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There are only relatively few sims (IMHO) that are challenging but manageable (which to me infers scrolly) for a single player - South Humberside is one (also Euston, Exeter, Gloucester, Swindid, Westbury and Saltley until the commuters wake up!). It's fine as it is; splitting it would make it considerably less challenging and therefore less interesting.
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 25/07/2012 at 13:21 #34323
Stephen Fulcher
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Chris, my personal view would be that the amount of effort required on your part to split it off would be disproportionate to the gains.

People would probably play Scunthorpe as a stepping stone to South Humberside, where of course they would still control Scunthorpe anyway.

I would leave things as they are.

Steve

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Scunthorpe PSB sim 25/07/2012 at 13:23 #34324
58050
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Chris, I say leave the sim as it is. It's far better as one than splitting it.
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Scunthorpe PSB sim 28/07/2012 at 19:26 #34434
bill_gensheet
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Certainly keep one sim. I think you need the Scunthorpe area to have the ore/coal circuit remain in sim so that mistakes come back on you. The alternative would be a lot of rules to add that might give problems.

However I think that a Scunthorpe 'mini-sim' is worthwhile, probably best done afterwards so the timetable translation only needs doing once from a stable proven data set

Bill

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