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| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 28/07/2012 at 22:34 #34443 | |
Underwood
746 posts |
Hello all, I don't know if there's anyone who has diagrams for the FCC 365s/317s/321s, or if any locals have an idea of formations, but if anyone can answer the following questions please, even if it is just one, then it will be appreciated! It's for a 2012 Weekday TT for King's Cross SimSig: 1. The class 365s I believe are usually paired unless it's one to Kings Lynn. I know some split at Cambridge, but a couple in the early morning have a 1 or 2 minute stop at Cambridge so I assume it's solo throughout for these. Is there many trio sets though? I have seen a trio on YouTube, but I don't know if these would ever run to/from Peterborough? At a guess I'd say trios are on the Kings Lynn, with 1 set breaking off at Cambridge leaving 2 behind, but I doubt these ever do the stopper service (2Cxx headcode) services? 2. Are 317s normally paired? I know they don't have a lot so I guess there is some solo ones about? 3. As for Class 313s, I assume a majority of these are double sets? I'd imagine just a few 3 car 313 sets wouldn't cope in the peak hour! 4. Does anyone know what the Class 321s do? Are these out all day or do they just work some peak services? 5. I seem to recall seeing it once, but I can't remember 100%, but can a 12 car set fit in Platforms 9-11 at Kings Cross, or do these need to use 1-8? 6. Finally, I know there is (or used to be) a hot spare Class 317 dumped on platform 8 on Saturdays, does this apply on weekdays too? Again, any help is highly appreciated! I've only ever been on the FCC network on Saturdays on a rail day out, so I don't know what weekdays are like. Thank you, James. Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 29/07/2012 at 05:57 #34447 | |
Peter Bennet
5362 posts 
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FCC public timetable shows the number of carriages in a train at the head of the timetable (M-F peak only). The Outer Suburbans are made up of 317/321/365 in pairs or singly, with a few triples. As far as I am aware all the triples are 365s. You are correct that the Kings Lynn's are singles (apparently they can't run in pairs north of Ely). A couple of Down trains split in-platform at Letchworth, I don't think they have any joins there - not sure about at Royston these days. 313 never run in triples - platforms are too short for a start. Triple 365s must use platforms 0-8 at KX. I have occasionally seen a spare 317 at KX (had to scurry passed it!) not necessarily on P8. If I dig out a timetable I maybe able to identify some train consists for you, mainly on the Peterborough line. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 29/07/2012 at 13:33 #34461 | |
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Jan
890 posts |
The UKmodernEMU group on Yahoo has the diagrams you want, although at the moment, there aren't any 313 diagrams for 2012. Depending on how much has changed in the timetable, you might get by with the 2011 diagrams, though.
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 29/07/2012 at 15:13 #34464 | |
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ipswich
247 posts |
365s there a 3 12car units from peterborough in the morning all 365s 0617 PBO-KGX 0653 PBO-KGX 0714 PBO-KGX evening peak 1710 KGX-PBO 12CAR 1740 KGX-PBO 12CAR goes back to hornsey as 5E68 from peterborough 1810 KGX-PBO 12CAR 2Cxx KGX-CBG-KGX stoppers have to be 4car between Royston and Cambridge you usually find the 2Pxx KGX-PBO-KGX stoppers as 4car aswell hope this helps if u need more info let me know and ill see what i can find Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 29/07/2012 at 17:55 #34474 | |
ajax103
1106 posts |
Don't forget these 12 cars can be and have been operated using Class 321s instead! Also with regards to Royston, there is a lot a of splitting that takes place there in the evening for example I know of one 12 car which has the front 8 going fast to Cambridge and onwards while the rear 4 call all stations to Cambridge. Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 29/07/2012 at 19:58 #34478 | |
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lpeters
160 posts |
I can tell you that there is at least 1 12-car C321 that runs in the morning peak. Most 12 cars are run usually by C365s. RYS<>CBG as said rightly above must be 4-car for those stopping at Meldreth, Shepreth and Foxton due to platform lengths (about 90m each I believe). I believe there is 1 C313 run that runs as a 12-car although that is ECS from Hornsey to KGX in the AM peak. In PAX service, as said, run as 3 or 6 cars (I see more 6-car than 3-car. I believe that FCC services do run as 8-car or 4-car north of Ely now since an upgrade to power supplies. Greater Anglia still run no more than 4-car as there tends to be less demand as FCC run semi-fast services between CBG and KLN. There tends to be more divides than joins in PAX services (infact, I don't know of any joins in PAX service although i'm sure there may be one or two). EDIT: After reading through the OP - i realise i've hardly touched the topic of the post (oops). 1) 1Cxx run as a mix of 4-car and 8-car. Almost all 4-cars stop at all stops, or most stops to Stevenage and then FPK and KGX only. 2Cxx run all stops CBG to SVG then Knebworth, Welwyn North, Welwyn GC, Hatfield, Potters Bar, Finsbury Park and Kings Cross. 2) 317s run as either 4-car or 8-car. I don't have the latest stock workings to hand but the most recent ones that I do have has one set running as a single for most of the day but they run equally as much as both pairs and singles. 3) 313s run as 3-car or 6-car. I see mostly 6-cars in Stevenage but do see some 3-cars as well. Nothing longer than 6-car runs in public service. 4) Class 321s are now out most of the day and run both as singles or pairs. Previously they were only certified to run KGX<>CBG although recently (think it was around this time last year) they were also certified to begin working to PBO as well. 5) Platforms 9-11 at KGX are around 170m in length I believe. 8-cars are the longest that fit in at around 160m. Platforms 0-8 all handle 8-car trains and I seem to recall that only P1 and P6 were capable of holding the NoL eurostars. 6) I can't answer the question about the C317 hot spare as I don't visit London often enough but I will see if I can check the stock workings. Last edited: 29/07/2012 at 20:08 by lpeters Reason: Answered OP post Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 30/07/2012 at 10:51 #34492 | |
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ipswich
247 posts |
luke, i know that one join takes place at cambridge 4>8 a semi fast arrives around 1730 and joins to the 1745 off cambridge to kgx 1T57 correct me if im wrong but its the train that starts at downham market that it joins to thats the only join of real sufficiance i know of when i spoke to a FCC driver last week he said there was one 8car to KLN a day which called after ely at downham market and kings lynn only the other thing i know is 2R01 0415 KGX-RYS is a 317 for staff and comes back as 1Rxx Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 30/07/2012 at 13:30 #34496 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
" said:Actually some 8-cars used to run (I don't know if they still do) all stops CBG to RYS: the back 8 were locked out of use and then opened up for the RYS-KGX leg. Saved doing a coupling move at Royston. I don't know if they ever did the converse in return. Quote: 5) Platforms 9-11 at KGX are around 170m in length I believe. 8-cars are the longest that fit in at around 160m. Platforms 0-8 all handle 8-car trains and I seem to recall that only P1 and P6 were capable of holding the NoL eurostars.6 used to be able to hold 12 cars without trouble, but remember that 5 to 8 have been shortened recently. Hmm, the NoLs were 320 metres long, which is almost 16 cars of 365, so 12 should fit into any of 0 to 8 without trouble. Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 30/07/2012 at 16:22 #34498 | |
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metcontrol
217 posts |
From experience of travelling most days at various times of the day, and also from writing a 2010 timetable based on the Yahoo group's data as mentioned, rather than anything official... Virtually everything off-peak is 4-cars (but the 313s run mostly as 3+3 cars - there are exceptions.) I've seen 12-cars in platform 7 at King's Cross recently, and a while back in platform 2, meaning both halves of the "mainline" station can fit 12 cars. Some splits during the evening peak occur at Letchworth - with the front unit continuing with the passenger journey, and the rear half either reversing via Letchworth Siding or, in the case of a couple, travelling on to Baldock to reverse before heading back to London to form other services (1634? Ex King's Cross does this). There is at least 1 train around 0900 which does the Baldock move as well (I've seen this from my allotment adjacent the line at Baldock  ) The trains which split at Letchworth are "usually" 317, but can occasionally be 321. Not seen a 365 do these.The hot spare at King's Cross seems to be slightly less regular than it once was - whether this is because the unit now gets used for something else most days, or whether it is no longer timetabled I don't know. Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 30/07/2012 at 17:54 #34499 | |
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ajax103
1106 posts |
The hot spare at Kings Cross on a weekday is booked as a 365 as it couples to a second 365 to form a evening service to Cambridge, however on the weekend this is normally a 317 instead.
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| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 30/07/2012 at 18:19 #34500 | |
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Lagertoe
61 posts |
I have the web Gemini line up for Kings cross and Moorgate for 30/07/12 which has the unit allocations for services. If you are interested
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| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 30/07/2012 at 21:39 #34508 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
Taking into consideration that 30/7/12 probably isn't using normal workings owing to the 'lympics
Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 30/07/2012 at 21:55 #34509 | |
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ajax103
1106 posts |
The working timetable is a amazing 1720 pages for 2012! And that's just Kings Cross/Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City/Hertford/Royston!!! Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 31/07/2012 at 12:22 #34518 | |
northroad
870 posts |
The 12 car is as follows - 1T23 which is the 18:14 Kings Cross to Kings Lynn splits at Royston the front 8 continuing fast to Cambridge and the rear 4 forming 2C43 slow to Cambridge. Also the following link from First Capital Connect web page may be of some help which also shows splitting of 8 car into 4 car for the Cambridge and Kings Lynn routes. http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/static/timetables/timetable/FC1112_GN1_SX_out_1.pdf Geoff. Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 02/08/2012 at 13:34 #34571 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
Hello all, Thank you very much for the help, especially with the coach formations on FCC's timetable, I know they do those and for some reason, I forgot to even look at that!! I've signed up for the UKModernEMU Yahoo group that was pointed out, and has the 2012 diagrams for 365s, 321s and 317s, and a 2011 diagram sheet for 313s, that is most useful, it's worth signing up for that! I'm also lost of coach formations for 313s though. For instance, on FCC's timetable it states the 08:32 Welwyn - Moorgate (2K15) is 6 cars, thus I guess 2B14 to Hertford (it's next working) is 6 cars too, but of course the timetable only shows inbound morning stuff coach numbers. It's following turn is the 10:33 Hertford - Moorgate (2J35) however according to FCC's TT, this is 3 cars long...so somewhere between 2K15 and 2J35, it's dumped a 313. This is booked for platform 9, and once it leaves as 2B14, 2J25 arrives 7 minutes later with a sole Class 313, which then runs as 5E44 to Hornsey EMUD. As this is a 3 car 313, is it possible that 2B14 runs as a 3 car 313, leaving one behind to double up with 5E44? I don't know if this happens at Moorgate or not? Also, I notice there are some other 3 car formations from Welwyn which were 6 cars earlier on. Again, could these join to other ECS turns with a 3 car 313 at Moorgate or do they break off at Welwyn with one heading to the C.S.D at Welwyn until the peak hour? Thank you VERY much for the help, it is appreciated :cheer: :) Ajax - I know, it's a million pages long! I'm working through it on the weekday section, and it's taking a fair bit of time, and I'm working around ways for those trains that are booked to us P0 too, time consuming! Last edited: 02/08/2012 at 13:35 by Underwood Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 02/08/2012 at 15:54 #34586 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
I don't think splitting and joining is done at Moorgate - I've never heard of it, and I can't recall if there are even shunt aspects on the last signals. Much more likely is that it drops a unit at Hertford to go into the sidings, or to wait in the bay all day. Log in to reply |
| Class 365s, 317s and 321 stock query weekdays 02/08/2012 at 16:49 #34593 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2027 posts
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There is a subsidiary aspect under K342 in the Kings Cross sim, but it is possible that it is only used in emergencies.
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