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| Your views on Windows 8 26/10/2012 at 17:26 #36933 | |
alvinhochun
249 posts |
Windows 8 is about to launch (or you can say it's already launched in China) (or am I actually wrong?), so I would like to say a few words about my view on Windows 8: Having tried the Consumer Preview and the Release Preview myself and read some reviews on the web, I sincerely conclude that: Windows 8 ****s. (Substitute **** with any negative words.) The Metro UI (or so-called Modern UI), really fails on a desktop PC using a mouse and a keyboard. It is perhaps a good idea for a tablet, or to be considered as a touch interface, but there is no way to disable it on a PC! The newly-designed Start Menu isn't bad, at least I seldom use the start menu: I mostly rely on the Taskbar and the search functionality on the Start Menu, and Windows 8 has them both, not bad. However the Start Screen is always blocking my way to the Desktop when I log in. I need to select "Desktop" in order to access it, which is one major drawback. Also to note that before the log in screen, we need to slide the screen up to "unlock" the screen. That is a norm for a tablet, but definitely not for a desktop or a notebook, especially for a notebook you need to use the touchpad to slide it up...??? Windows 8 is just a headache. Here is my short opinion on Windows 8. So how about yours? *Not to be confused with Windows 8 RT* _ _ _ _，_ _ _ _！ (censored by the Hong Kong national security law) Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 26/10/2012 at 18:34 #36935 | |
Josie
310 posts |
In fairness I haven't used it yet, but everything I've seen would suggest it's exactly as you say: wonderful on a tablet or touch-screen, horrendous for everyday desktop computing. I really don't understand the drive to a.) make everything the same and b.) make everything look like a tablet device.
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| Your views on Windows 8 26/10/2012 at 18:57 #36936 | |
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peterb
451 posts 
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I read somewhere that there was the option to switch back to the more traditional desktop? Y/N? Or is that the same 'desktop' you're talking about... Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 26/10/2012 at 19:43 #36938 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:I read somewhere that there was the option to switch back to the more traditional desktop? Y/N?There is an option to use a "desktop" mode, however it does not feature the traditional start button, or menu that you are probably used to. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 26/10/2012 at 20:37 #36940 | |
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delticfan
476 posts |
I've just changed my laptop to one with Windows 7 and so far no problems, so I'm still one behind but so long as it gives me no problems I'll stay where I am. 
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| Your views on Windows 8 26/10/2012 at 20:39 #36941 | |
postal
5192 posts
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" said:In fairness I haven't used it yet, but everything I've seen would suggest it's exactly as you say: wonderful on a tablet or touch-screen, horrendous for everyday desktop computing. I really don't understand the drive to a.) make everything the same and b.) make everything look like a tablet device.Because from the looks of it MS have fallen into exactly the same trap as they did with Vista. Their tecchies told them then that this or that innovation would be a "must have" and they believed their tecchies rather than their customers. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 27/10/2012 at 08:40 #36950 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2028 posts |
I still think it is difficult to beat XP in many ways. Vista was terrible (the version I had crashed more than it worked), 7 works fine but is a bit of a resource hog. No doubt any new Windows PC that anyone buys will soon feature Windows 8, and it will probably be a pain to get used to. I agree with whoever posted above about the excessive menace of standardisation. After all, mobile telephones are completely different to standard PCs and there seems little sense in making their interfaces all look the same. From the comments above it almost suggests everyone will need a touchscreen monitor to use it effectively, and in a way I can see that being the norm on top-end laptops before too long anyway. I remember the protests when Windows for Workgroups 3.11 was replaced with Windows 95 and how long it took people to "get used" to the start menu system over the Programme Manager, and it seems that this could be the first major interface change since then. Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 28/10/2012 at 16:43 #37000 | |
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alvinhochun
249 posts |
A little bit old news, Notch, the author of Minecraft, refuses to certify Minecraft with Windows 8. Quote: Got an e-mail from Microsoft wanting to help 'certify' Minecraft for Windows 8. I told them to stop trying to ruin the PC as an open platform. Quote: I'd rather have Minecraft not run on Windows 8 at all than to play along. Maybe we can convince a few people not to switch to Windows 8 that way.That's really what I want to say. Windows 8 is just so bad for the PC, especially to the gaming industry. In Windows 8, the Metro UI (or Modern UI) isn't parallel to the traditional Desktop environment, it just makes you feel like it's just an App inside Windows 8. If you've tried it you will understand what I mean. When you are in the Desktop and started a Metro App, you leave the Desktop. When you open a traditional Windows program, you go back to the Desktop. You cannot open a single traditional program side-to-side with a Metro App, you can only use the whole Desktop with a Metro App opened as a side panel. Each "Metro App" is an individual, while the whole Desktop (along with any other traditional programs as a whole) is an individual. You can see the difference. The "Start Screen" is yet another annoyance. Let's say you're in the Desktop, you open the "Start Screen" that makes you enter the "Metro UI", then you start a traditional Windows program and you go back to the Desktop. Why can't we just stay in the Desktop when doing something? The organization is also another pain. I am not the age of Windows 3.1 so I can't tell how it feels when the interface got switched from the Program Manager to the Taskbar and Start Menu. The current Taskbar and Start Menu is just so good, that you first have a list of frequently used programs, then you can see a list of well organized trees that contains the shortcut to a program, or programs of a program group (like SimSig). For the Start Screen, the main screen is a total mess, every program you install that creates some sort of program groups doesn't work, all the shortcuts (including the uninstaller) just get pushed to the end of the list, no grouping, no sub-menus. In the "all apps" menu, there is grouping, but is just totally useless as all the icons are just tossed everywhere, similar to the main screen. The Micro$oft "Marketplace" just don't work too, as they just only want $$$. Most likely they just saw Apple earning a lot of money from being the gatekeeper of the App Store and they are trying to copy Apple. On the other hand, I've tried SimSig on Windows 8 Consumer Preview, and it worked. It worked. But I really encourage the SimSig developers: Never make SimSig a Metro App, and never get it certified for Windows 8. _ _ _ _，_ _ _ _！ (censored by the Hong Kong national security law) Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 28/10/2012 at 17:03 #37001 | |
Peter Bennet
5362 posts |
It's one thing to provide an objective review of the software, it's a completely different thing to try and whip up anti-microsoft sentiment. Please keep it objective. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 28/10/2012 at 19:22 #37003 | |
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postal
5192 posts
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But alvinhochun does raise a valid concern which could affect all freeware applications. There are a number of ifs, but they combine to give a very bad scenario. All of the ifs are the sorts of thing that a profit-driven business would have to consider. If Microsoft set W8 so that it will only allow "certified" applications to run, and if you can only get "certified" applications through the Microsoft Store, and if you have to pay to get the application "certified" then there is nowhere in that business model for freeware. The developer will have to pay to get the application "certified" and then the user will probably have to pay to get their hands on the "certified" application unless Microsoft act in an unbusinesslike manner and have a section of their Store for freeware. However the user interface for W8 works, the whole certification and Microsoft Store bit could be the thin end of a very nasty wedge. If that model makes enough cash for Microsoft and there is no public outcry, then the business model for the future is set. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 28/10/2012 at 19:31 #37004 | |
jc92
3631 posts |
" said:I am not 100% technical IT savvy, but when Vista came out, it had many drawbacks and problems that i would call the thin edge of the wedge, when windows 7 came out, it seems to me to be improved vista with all the errors corrected, i imagine windows 9 would always pick up on any major shortcomings. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 28/10/2012 at 21:17 #37005 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
Even XP was fairly atrocious pre SP1, Vista wasn't bad by SP2, 7 was fairly fine out the box. Windows 8 is such a shift in user interface following a fairly decent version that I fail to see a good reason for most to move across. Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 28/10/2012 at 21:18 #37006 | |
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postal
5192 posts
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" said:" said:Technical problems can be put right with updates and patches which the creator or vendor of the operating system would have to supply for fear of falling foul of consumer protection legislation about selling a product which is fit for purpose. I can't see how that can be described as the thin end of a wedge. On the other hand, an App Store could mean that you end up with no freeware or community ware which will run on the operating system. This would would have significant consequences, not least for SimSig. I think there is a fundamental difference between the two situations.I am not 100% technical IT savvy, but when Vista came out, it had many drawbacks and problems that i would call the thin edge of the wedge, when windows 7 came out, it seems to me to be improved vista with all the errors corrected, i imagine windows 9 would always pick up on any major shortcomings. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 28/10/2012 at 21:46 #37007 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:...selling a product which is fit for purpose.They don't sell you anything, they merely grant you a licence to use the software, I'm not sure "fit for purpose" comes into it. Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 29/10/2012 at 09:13 #37009 | |
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postal
5192 posts
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" said:" said:As you have managed to pick fault with the lesser point of my posting but not the major point about the possible dangers of the Microsoft approach to "certification", do I take it that someone with your level of professional iT experience and knowledge sees the same dangers?...selling a product which is fit for purpose.They don't sell you anything, they merely grant you a licence to use the software, I'm not sure "fit for purpose" comes into it. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 29/10/2012 at 12:17 #37018 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
Nope, no system is 100% secure, iPhones are the main item with an App Store and restrictions on installing software yet you still see things like Cydia that allow you to circumvent the limitations. If Microsoft lock down Windows 8 then I can't see that affecting those who run Windows 7, Vista and XP, and if MS do start on that track then perhaps SimSig would be better ported to Linux, a more free, unrestricted platform. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Your views on Windows 8 29/10/2012 at 21:16 #37029 | |
pedroathome
891 posts |
Does anyone know though if SimSig is Windows 8 compatible?
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| Your views on Windows 8 29/10/2012 at 21:37 #37030 | |
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Lardybiker
771 posts |
" said:On the other hand, I've tried SimSig on Windows 8 Consumer Preview, and it worked. It worked. But I really encourage the SimSig developers: Never make SimSig a Metro App, and never get it certified for Windows 8.Someone has already tried it on a pre-release version it would seem.... Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 03/11/2012 at 10:57 #37186 | |
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wulf
27 posts |
" said:Windows 8 RT will only allow Windows Store applications - Windows 8 Pro will be able to run normal desktop apps too. Of course Microsoft wants to copy Apple - no one wants to pay the prices MS has historically charged for operating systems and people have started growing used to paying for applications instead. Something has to fund the people who put the R&D into the system, and this looks like the model that will work in the future. "Certified" is a strong word - they're basically checked as far as I can see in an automated way to make sure they're not doing anything obviously bad. You have to pay $49/year to distribute through the Windows 8 store. Compare this to $99 to do the same in Apple's app store. Apps can be free on the store or advertising supported. But developers of freeware have costs anyway for software, hosting etc but manage to not pass it on. $49 is pretty small beer in this picture and it hardly excludes freeware from the business model. Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 03/11/2012 at 11:55 #37188 | |
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postal
5192 posts
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" said:But developers of freeware have costs anyway for software, hosting etc but manage to not pass it on. $49 is pretty small beer in this picture and it hardly excludes freeware from the business model.The point of freeware is that is is produced by people who like the challenge of making something and seeing others use it. Thought of financial recompense is secondary. For many of these people adding £30 into the cost base of what they see as a zero-cost operation is not a sensible option. Not knowing anything about how Geoff funds all of the SimSig infrastructure I can't comment on whether £30/$49 is pretty small beer or not as far as this operation is concerned. Perhaps you know better. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 03/11/2012 at 11:56 by postal Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 03/11/2012 at 13:55 #37198 | |
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alvinhochun
249 posts |
Even Google Play needs a registration fee, but it's a one-time US$25 fee. Even it's not much it stops me from developing Android Apps. (Well there's some other issues as well...) By the way it seems that there are not much opinion on the user interface here. Is it because most of you haven't tried Windows 8? Seriously, it is not a smart idea to force the "tablet-like" UI to get to a desktop PC. Desktop PC for power users are supposed to be "windows-based", that you can open a program and it shows a (or some) window(s) that can be re-sized and moved around to increase productivity. Some people may use a desktop to play games (3D and violent games, I mean), but for the majority they work. They start word processing/presentation/spreadsheet softwares and work. They may start a browser and browse the internet for news, information, documents, etc. They always place windows side-by-side, sometimes even up and down and even splitted into more panels with high flexibility, so that they can cross reference things and compare easily. With "Metro Apps" the arrangement of "Apps" are strictly limited, you can only view two apps simultaneously, one in the middle and one on the side.[1] This greatly reduces productivity. Luckily the traditional Windows Desktop interface isn't dropped completely, or else... Another point, Microsoft seems to want to push users to get a touchscreen. But for a desktop PC, the physical keyboard and a relative pointing device[2] are very important for working. Entering text with a physical keyboard is much faster than any other means. Touch keyboard (virtual on-screen keyboard) just doesn't feel right (with a physical keyboard the user can explicitly know that a key is pressed and a character is input even without watching, but touching the screen to type is just soooooo slow). Handwriting input is just like speech recognition that errors can present and you need to spend time proof-reading. (If there were a device that can read your mind and input it might be even much faster. But there weren't.) For pointing devices, mouse is the best in my opinion but touchpad and TrackPoint is also acceptable. The mouse is placed on the same plane with the keyboard, so that when you are typing and you need to move the cursor and select something you just need to move your right hand (not the wrong hand) to the right (direction) to grab the mouse. If you use a touchscreen, you need to raise a hand (or both if you want to multitouch?) to reach the touchscreen (if it is a monitor-like position, the normal way to place the screen if you are using a physical keyboard). So why are tablets having no physical keyboard and relative pointing device so popular? The main reason is that they are designed to be carried around (lacking physical keyboard and mouse) and used easily (no need to open the cover like notebooks), to be used to perform light-weighted and simple work. In contrast, desktop PCs are designed to be used to process documents and perform complex jobs. Tablets (with touchscreens) are never good for word processing and program developing. But what about a relative pointing device on a tablet interface (Metro UI)? Fail. Imagine you have a screen that is 1920x1080 (modern monitors can be even higher in resolution!), and you are running an App designed for touchscreen usage... Tablets and PCs don't share the same jobs. They have different uses, that's why attempting to merge desktop PCs and tablets isn't a good idea. Although Windows 8 can do both, I believe, users on Windows 8 on tablets will tend to use Metro Apps, while users on Windows 8 on desktops will tend to continue to use traditional Windows program. That will render the merge of interfaces meaningless. [1] [video width=425 height=344 type=youtube]g8w2LThn5qc[/video][video width=425 height=344 type=youtube]AMpaXB0slIc[/video] [2] Relative pointing devices such as mouses, TrackPoints and touchpads allows users to move the cursor by a relative manner, while absolute pointing devices such as touchscreens accepts input directly, that the input location directly matches a location of the screen. _ _ _ _，_ _ _ _！ (censored by the Hong Kong national security law) Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 04/11/2012 at 13:35 #37225 | |
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Albert
1314 posts |
On the Linux side, tablet or touch oriented interfaces are also being introduced. The debate about Ubuntu's Unity interface is no different from Win7 vs Win8, except that Linux users have a choice to install another desktop or switch to another distro - Windows users need "outdated" software if they want a traditional desktop. Back in 2011, at the moment Unity got introduced, Linux Mint saw its usage increased by 40% because of people that preferred a traditional desktop. Sometimes I am afraid that more and more people will switch to tablet UIs, making life harder for the people who still prefer traditional environments. I am wondering if this last group is fading, or if it will continue to exist. AJP in games Log in to reply |
| Your views on Windows 8 04/11/2012 at 14:13 #37226 | |
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alvinhochun
249 posts |
" said:On the Linux side, tablet or touch oriented interfaces are also being introduced. The debate about Ubuntu's Unity interface is no different from Win7 vs Win8, except that Linux users have a choice to install another desktop or switch to another distro - Windows users need "outdated" software if they want a traditional desktop. Back in 2011, at the moment Unity got introduced, Linux Mint saw its usage increased by 40% because of people that preferred a traditional desktop.The change of interface on Ubuntu doesn't affect me much though, as I mainly use the terminal on Ubuntu. The Unity interface is still better than Windows 8 in my opinion, which there is no "fullscreen start screen". _ _ _ _，_ _ _ _！ (censored by the Hong Kong national security law) Last edited: 04/11/2012 at 14:15 by alvinhochun Log in to reply |