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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 16:38 #37731
jc92
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hi guys,

just working on a summer 1990 weekday timetable for NWC, and i have come across a WTT steam working crewe - Holyhead TWO. i assume this to be the NWC express but i am a little confused about part of its schedule:

it leaves crewe at 09:50 and gets to llan jcn at 11:38 where it takes water until 11:58. so far so good, it then runs to llandudno town along the branch, arriving at 12:08. it leaves llandudno town at 12:32 and runs back to llan jcn (i assume it either runs round in P2 at llan town or detrains, propels into the C.S. and runs round). it arrives at llan junction at 12:42 and departs for holyhead at 12:52. this is where i run into an issue- how does it run round so fast? it will be impossible to replicate this? if thats correct, then i shall replicate it and give the Llan jcn signalman a headache as per real life, but does anyone know if a Pilot was attached for the branch section to top and tail the train, coming off again at Llan junction?

any help greatly appreciated.

Joe

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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 16:49 #37733
Signalhunter
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Joe, I was looking at something similar, myself. I'm led to believe it was Top 'n' tailed, with an oil burner (class 67?). This also dealt with the shunting, at Holyhead, whilst the steam loco. turned at Valley.
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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 17:13 #37739
jc92
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" said:
Joe, I was looking at something similar, myself. I'm led to believe it was Top 'n' tailed, with an oil burner (class 67?). This also dealt with the shunting, at Holyhead, whilst the steam loco. turned at Valley.
class 67? i like to do timetables with decent traction thankyou! on a serious note, i had hoped as such. there is a pilot (T43) at holyhead, but i imagine the parrafin can would be able to recess the stock while the loco runs to valley to turn.

most likely it will be a 47/4 or 47/6 from crewe D.D.. its an interesting movement as ive never known the NWCE to run to llandudno unless it termintates there and runs back to crewe.

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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 19:01 #37747
Underwood
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Oddly I'm doing one off my 1989 - 1990 NRT, I do not have WTT's so it's classed at semi-fictional though traction is guessed mostly through photographic research.

http://www.2d53.co.uk/ is a good site for a couple of things too, has trip workings listed, and all of them are Class 08s.

on that site, Trip 43 is noted as a Class 08 (see bottom of this page http://www.2d53.co.uk/trip/AT7.htm), work orders for passenger and freight and list's the time windows it runs in too

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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 19:05 #37748
jc92
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3057 posts
" said:
Oddly I'm doing one off my 1989 - 1990 NRT, I do not have WTT's so it's classed at semi-fictional though traction is guessed mostly through photographic research.

http://www.2d53.co.uk/ is a good site for a couple of things too, has trip workings listed, and all of them are Class 08s.

on that site, Trip 43 is noted as a Class 08 (see bottom of this page http://www.2d53.co.uk/trip/AT7.htm), work orders for passenger and freight and list's the time windows it runs in too
Im working from the 1990 summer WTT for passenger parcels freight and departmental, im also using a north west area Trip notice for 1991 and a RES train service guide for 1991. i am also using a special traffic notice for 1989

T92 doesnt seem to be listed there

Last edited: 19/11/2012 at 19:10 by jc92
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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 19:57 #37753
Danny252
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" said:
T92 doesnt seem to be listed there
http://www.2d53.co.uk/trip/tripmenu.htm

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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 20:05 #37755
Underwood
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JC92 - I'll scrap my one, I'm having trouble linking services up without at WTT! I'll crack on with a 1980's version, at least I have headcodes and timings for them!

I also realised the Class 47 you are on about was for the NWCE, I thought you were on about the pilot loco but I've read it wrong, sorry!

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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 21:12 #37764
headshot119
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" said:
JC92 - I'll scrap my one, I'm having trouble linking services up without at WTT! I'll crack on with a 1980's version, at least I have headcodes and timings for them!

I also realised the Class 47 you are on about was for the NWCE, I thought you were on about the pilot loco but I've read it wrong, sorry!
I'm interested to see how well an 80s TT will work on the present layout. If you have any specific issues with anything James give me a shout and I'll see what we can sort out.

"As the last track dropped, and the route became free, came the cry BROMLEY " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 21:23 #37765
jc92
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" said:
JC92 - I'll scrap my one, I'm having trouble linking services up without at WTT! I'll crack on with a 1980's version, at least I have headcodes and timings for them!

I also realised the Class 47 you are on about was for the NWCE, I thought you were on about the pilot loco but I've read it wrong, sorry!
indeed! its doable with a bit of improvisation (rhyl C.E instead of rhyl yard for instance). i look forward to signalling a cavalcade of Peds rats peaks whistlers and duffs, maybe even a crompton

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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 21:38 #37766
headshot119
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" said:
" said:
JC92 - I'll scrap my one, I'm having trouble linking services up without at WTT! I'll crack on with a 1980's version, at least I have headcodes and timings for them!

I also realised the Class 47 you are on about was for the NWCE, I thought you were on about the pilot loco but I've read it wrong, sorry!
indeed! its doable with a bit of improvisation (rhyl C.E instead of rhyl yard for instance). i look forward to signalling a cavalcade of Peds rats peaks whistlers and duffs, maybe even a crompton
Where are the 101's in that list

"As the last track dropped, and the route became free, came the cry BROMLEY " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 21:43 #37767
jc92
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3057 posts
" said:
" said:
" said:
JC92 - I'll scrap my one, I'm having trouble linking services up without at WTT! I'll crack on with a 1980's version, at least I have headcodes and timings for them!

I also realised the Class 47 you are on about was for the NWCE, I thought you were on about the pilot loco but I've read it wrong, sorry!
indeed! its doable with a bit of improvisation (rhyl C.E instead of rhyl yard for instance). i look forward to signalling a cavalcade of Peds rats peaks whistlers and duffs, maybe even a crompton
Where are the 101's in that list ;)
true, theres still some holding out in my TT, going back there was more variety than just 101s

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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 22:49 #37769
Underwood
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Indeed, except I'm a bit hazy on the DMU front (I used a 121 on the BF branch, as it's timed for D1, now I'm unsure if there were any 121s up there solo, especially in the Summer).

It's set on a Saturday too, so expect the usual SO goodies with no heat machines to show, and plenty of loco action courtesy of help from 2D53, my NRT and 'Hellfire' 1981 program.

I note the first and late Blaenau DMU has a 'Mail' heading, one down and one up. as the DMU requires a reversal at Llandudno Junction, one assumes it carries mail in the DMU rather than towing a BG MK1 like some examples (Barnstaple etc)?

Sorry, I'm hijacking the thread now, but as you say JC, it should be doable with a few workarounds here and there.

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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 22:53 #37771
jc92
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most likely conveyed in the guards compartment unless it indicates TV or D1(T) for trailing vehicle.

D1 will be a 121 or a 101 single power unit

Last edited: 19/11/2012 at 23:03 by jc92
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north wales coast express 19/11/2012 at 23:15 #37776
headshot119
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" said:
most likely conveyed in the guards compartment unless it indicates TV or D1(T) for trailing vehicle.

D1 will be a 121 or a 101 single power unit
You could even have a timetable rule to simulate a power trailer running on one engine having little chance of making it up the hill and have it return back to llanrwst.

"As the last track dropped, and the route became free, came the cry BROMLEY " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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north wales coast express 20/11/2012 at 02:43 #37778
Danny252
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It actually seems surprisingly doable even for the late 70s - the main issue seems to be Colwyn Bay, where a fair few things passed eachother/shunted around (e.g. Llan Jcn - Colwyn forming Colwyn - Llan Jcn - Blaenau Ffest), and Holyhead losing a platform might make things interesting. The timings work out surprisingly well, though, given how older TTs always seem to run everything 10 minutes early.
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north wales coast express 21/11/2012 at 01:48 #37862
jc92
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to close the topic - i have discovered it was tailed by a Cl.47 throughout, several pictures have confirmed this.

just to confused matters i have created three alternative trains so on tuesdays and wednesdays, you will get either 5407, 6201 or 60007 depending on what the sim throws out.

for any future reference:
the summer of 1990 saw the NWCE run TWO to Llandudno, then to holyhead, and return, and there was also a SUN working directly to holyhead

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