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| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT (moved from Marylebone Appreciation) 09/07/2013 at 11:34 #46839 | |
outofsection
149 posts |
" said:Ooh! If that's Easter this year it'll definitely be a very worthy addition: all those FGW Flying Bananas diverted from Reading up to Banbury & back down to Didcot... Lovely! B) If you're interested: the Bin Liners & Crossrail spoil trains pathed between 10:45 & 12:30pm didn't run on Easter Monday. I was at Princes Risborough in such cold temperatures that my lips were blue & freezing off as I waited to film them! I gave up at 12:30pm as I was shivering & hungry & thoroughly miserable. Oh, and the cafe wasn't open to thaw out in either!! Pauline: I could have done with you opening the cafe that morning! {New topic created for TT discussion - AG} Last edited: 09/07/2013 at 13:36 by AndyG Reason: Relocated posts to new thread Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 09/07/2013 at 12:42 #46841 | |
Underwood
746 posts |
" said:" said:I didn't know FGW ran the one and only Flying Banana http://www.flickr.com/photos/manofyorkshire/7101897617/ :laugh:!Ooh! If that's Easter this year it'll definitely be a very worthy addition: all those FGW Flying Bananas diverted from Reading up to Banbury & back down to Didcot... Lovely! B) Seriously though, yes it is for the 2013 season. Chiltern ECS shunts in the Aylesbury area are not listed, nor is there any data for the diverted Met trains though that can be worked around. Looking at what actually ran on Friday/Monday, there wasn't a lot of Chiltern stuff, no Banbury/Princess Risborough/Gerrards Cross terminators, and reduced service pattern on the rest, but probably to give space for the HST diversions. Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 09/07/2013 at 13:32 #46842 | |
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outofsection
149 posts |
Interesting! That's not one Flying Banana, it's a whole bunch of them!  Incidentally, I think there was ONE terminating train at Risborough from Marylebone in that hour & three quarters: It may have run as there were no Bin Liners or spoil trains. Not sure. Will try & find the WTT for the Monday. Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 09/07/2013 at 16:21 #46853 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
Only know the HST's as Trams, and the NMT as the Flying Banana I've not passed the mid-day mark yet, but haven't come across a Princess Risborough terminator yet, or not one that Raildar has picked up. A lot of re-timing's though I notice to/from Marylebone. I'm surprised that not all the Aylesbury - Marylebones via Princess Risborough didn't run, don't think they ran all day either, which if they didn't is surprising seeing as the Amersham - Marylebone section was shut all weekend inc. the bank holidays... Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 09/07/2013 at 16:35 #46854 | |
GeoffM
6284 posts |
" said:Princess RisboroughDid it change gender while I wasn't looking?! Wikipedia article includes the origin of the name which is quite interesting. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 09/07/2013 at 22:07 #46873 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
Can never spell that right!  What's the odd's of a Class 168 working a daytime service to Aylesbury via Princes Ris does anyone know? I see there's a Kidderminster - Marylebone that arrives into P1 and 1045, and there's a Aylesbury stopper via Princes Ris at 1115 from P1. There is a 165 I already have in P1 that's been there since 6am and has no working yet. I'd imagine the 168 from Kidderminster probably goes to Wembley and the 165 goes to Aylesbury... I would otherwise guess that the Kidderminster terminator is a 165, but there is a photo of this exact working at Banbury formed of a 4 car Class 168. Open Train Times gives no clues as the data is gone there, and Raildar doesn't show ECS workings anyway. Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 10/07/2013 at 11:48 #46892 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
This definitely sounds like an interesting timetable, so I'm certainly looking forward to it! FWIW, if the line 'via Moor Park' is shut, passengers are advised to take a train to Beaconsfield, where replacement buses (coaches) take them to Amersham to pick up a train from there to Aylesbury - this train shunts via Siding 34 at Amersham. One would imagine it wouldn't bother shunting around at Aylesbury, just turn around and run back to Amersham. If the section up to Watford South Jn is still open, Met' line services run Amersham - Rickmansworth shuttles and then reverse via one of the sidings there. " said: What's the odd's of a Class 168 working a daytime service to Aylesbury via Princes Ris does anyone know?Not sure on that, but I was most surprised when, on what I believe was 11th December 2010 (the last day(?) of the Chesham shuttle on the Metropolitan Line), I arrived at Amersham on an A Stock and there was a 168 just about to depart from Platform 3! Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Last edited: 10/07/2013 at 11:53 by UKTrainMan Reason: spacing Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 10/07/2013 at 13:35 #46901 | |
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outofsection
149 posts |
" said:Can never spell that right!About as likely as treading in a pile of rocking horse manure I'd say! Let's put it this way: I've seen 168s (even 168/1s) on the Marylebone to Aylesbury via Amersham run quite often but NEVER on the Marylebone-Aylesbury run via Princes Risborough! Reason? I suspect there's not the seating demand! If a single Class 121 Bubble Car suffices for the shuttle in the morning peak from Aylesbury-Risborough, then surely a 3 or 4 car Class 168 is a considerable amount of overkill! The usual stock (and I've never seen anything else to date) to/from Marlyebone from Aylesbury via Risborough is a two-car Class 165! Princes Risborough is quite a rural and not overly busy station - in spite of the fact that for many years it had a four-way junction to the north of the station. (main line to Aynho Junction, Aylesbury branch, Oxford branch & Watlington branch - part of which is now the preserved Chinnor & Princes Risborough Railway). If you look at the current and Dec. 2012 timetable you'll notice that only a couple of London-B'ham & vice versa through trains stop there on weekdays. Guess this is down to pathing issues with the fast loco-hauled Chiltern Mainline service. You have to get a 165 to Bicester North or Banbury & change to one of the through 168s that stop there! Harrumph! Incidentally, according to this month's Railway Magazine, the 07:44 service from P-R to Marylebone is Chiltern Mainline loco hauled stock! Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 10/07/2013 at 16:59 #46922 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
Thought as much! Saying that, what are the odds of a Class 172 to Birmingham? Can't recall if their diagrams reach Birmingham... Princes Risborough gets a few calls but then the Banbury services didn't run, nor did half the Bicesters. West Ruislip gets a good service on the High Wycombe, no so much South Ruislip though Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 10/07/2013 at 17:17 #46924 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
" said:Thought as much! Saying that, what are the odds of a Class 172 to Birmingham? Can't recall if their diagrams reach Birmingham...After a cursory search on YouTube for "Class 172 Birmingham", I only found one video featuring a CR/CH Class 172 in the Birmingham area; I'm yet to find any more such sightings on either YouTube or Flickr. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Last edited: 10/07/2013 at 17:36 by UKTrainMan Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 10/07/2013 at 19:07 #46928 | |
moonraker
353 posts |
Also of note I see that the Class 67's are 6 car plus DVT as opposed to the 3 of the now defunct WSMR services
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| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 10/07/2013 at 19:09 #46929 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
Ah didn't think of YouTube I only ask as I found this http://www.flickr.com/photos/chris-chaplin/8610921208/in/set-72157633143866766 tagged onto a 4 car 168 on the Bank Holiday Monday. Unsure if that would have been the same on the Bank Holiday Friday as it depends where the Class 172 was on the Sunday, considering the 1H10 is the 0912 from Snow Hill and there is no inbound working for it on the Friday. 1H10 on the Friday ran 1-2 minutes late at every location, whereas on the Monday it was 4-5 minutes late from Bicester to London, which makes me wonder if it's because of the 75mph restricted Class 172 on the front. 172101 was also tagged onto another Birmingham too http://www.flickr.com/photos/chris-chaplin/8610952582/in/set-72157633143866766 If I recall rightly, they don't have weekend diagrams (which some stock like the 67 hauled services appear to be running to) so they could have been used for extra capacity being a long weekend. I can't find any info on the Chiltern Class 121 over the bank holidays, but I seem to recall that the 121 doesn't come out to play on Bank Holidays unless there are Quainton Road shuttles on the Monday. Thank you for confirming where they reverse at Amersham, I did wonder where they'd reverse as I assumed it would use a siding seeing as the Met were using Amersham too. I found on District Dave that 5 sets were out on a 15 minute Chesham/Amersham service, but I can't figure out if it means every 15 minutes from Amersham AND Chesham, or every 15 minutes to Chalfont & Latimer, and then making a 30 minute service to Amersham and Chesham. The latter I think would be right if only 5 sets were in play... Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 10/07/2013 at 19:57 #46936 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:Also of note I see that the Class 67's are 6 car plus DVT as opposed to the 3 of the now defunct WSMR servicesThough WSMR services did run as 67 + 3 + DVT, 67 + 4 + DVT, and I'm sure at least once 67 + 5 + DVT. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 11/07/2013 at 13:24 #46996 | |
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outofsection
149 posts |
I saw that train heading south whilst at Risborough on Easter Monday and it stopped too! I'm really quite gobsmacked that these 172 units are used on such long distance runs as strictly speaking the 172s are only really suburban units & intended for use on the Gerrards X - Marylebone services. A piggy-back stock move perhaps? Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 11/07/2013 at 15:07 #47002 | |
wellgroomed
109 posts |
" said:I saw that train heading south whilst at Risborough on Easter Monday and it stopped too! I'm really quite gobsmacked that these 172 units are used on such long distance runs as strictly speaking the 172s are only really suburban units & intended for use on the Gerrards X - Marylebone services.It was originally mooted that the Class 172 units would be used on "Metro" services between Gerrards Cross and Marylebone, but strictly speaking they're wasted operating those services, and the London-suburban services are operated by Class 165 units instead. To maximise the 100mph running available from the Class 172 units, these units are now routinely diagrammed (SX) to operate between Marylebone, Bicester North and Stratford-upon-Avon. Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 11/07/2013 at 19:58 #47012 | |
guyh
54 posts |
To add to my learned colleague's comments... the 172s are occasionally used to strengthen Birmingham trains - in fact Saturday sees the only regular use of 172s on Birmingham trains: with a MYB-BSW and return to make a 5-car train. On days when many / all Birmingham trains need to be longer than a single unit (eg West Coast blocks), there are insufficient 168 units to do this, and as the 172s are 100mph units these make good candidates. 168s do make appearances on MYB-AYS via HWY and v.v. workings - sure the trains might not need the capacity, but they are a good way of transferring the units back to Aylesbury which is where the main maintenance facility is. Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 11/07/2013 at 21:47 #47020 | |
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moonraker
353 posts |
Do Tyseley not do much other than stabling then ? Last I was there Chiltern had a fair number of their units in the sidings
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| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 12/07/2013 at 05:31 #47025 | |
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wellgroomed
109 posts |
" said:Do Tyseley not do much other than stabling then ? Last I was there Chiltern had a fair number of their units in the sidingsTyseley is not regularly used now, since the stabling at Birmingham Moor Street was opened. However it does continue to see booked stabling of CRCL units overnight from Thursday to Friday, to accomodate a regular engineering work block within the station at Birmingham Moor Street itself. Ad hoc stabling, fuelling and tyre turning takes place takes place as required. Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 13/07/2013 at 12:19 #47079 | |
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outofsection
149 posts |
I hadn't realised these Chiltern 172s were capable of 100mph. That does make them more suitable for long distances than using 165s. They'll make good company for the 172/2s that London-Midland use. I wasn't aware that Chiltern used Tyseley for stabling. Can't say I've ever seen any in there on the Saturdays I've travelled past it. Just not keen on the seating in place of the 168s! Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 13/07/2013 at 14:08 #47088 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:I hadn't realised these Chiltern 172s were capable of 100mph. That does make them more suitable for long distances than using 165s. They'll make good company for the 172/2s that London-Midland use. I wasn't aware that Chiltern used Tyseley for stabling. Can't say I've ever seen any in there on the Saturdays I've travelled past it.Just a shame chilterns 172s can't multi with LM 172s, at least not without modification to one of the units. (Although I'm led to believe there is a switch to allow the two to work together but I'm not sure how true that is.) "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 13/07/2013 at 14:20 #47090 | |
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moonraker
353 posts |
Ah yes I guess some would stable at Moor Street and also Stourbridge Junction
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| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 13/07/2013 at 21:09 #47111 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
" said:Ah yes I guess some would stable at Moor Street and also Stourbridge JunctionCorrect there is a set of sidings just past Stourbridge Junction, also holds the 67 loco hauled set that starts there on the Stourbridge - Marylebone service Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 13/07/2013 at 23:27 #47115 | |
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guyh
54 posts |
Karl, The coupling boxes are entirely compatible. However, when Mr Worrall bought the 165s for Thames & Chiltern in the 90s, he decided a couple of connections should go through different pins to prevent those nasty regional people from ever hooking up to a 15x. Therefore they could not be easily stolen. As a result our 172s have couplers wired up to the 16x config whereas LM have them wired to the 15x config. It would make some sense, other than the month shutdown while we did it, to reconfigure the coupler boxes on everything. Just a few pins are different, but unfortunately significant ones. Last edited: 13/07/2013 at 23:28 by guyh Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 14/07/2013 at 08:46 #47124 | |
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outofsection
149 posts |
" said:Karl,Isn't that always the case! If the connectors are the same physically, could that problem be got around (well in theory) by using say multi-pole break-before-make relays to reconfigure the connections in the plugs? So if it's only Chiltern couplers that are uniquely wired, then fit their 172s with these relays and a switch to throw the relays which in theory SHOULD allow coupling with both Chiltern AND LM untis as long as the voltages/current/control systems are compatible. All the driver has to do is flick a switch from "Chiltern" to "London Midland". There are still two problems left though: the L-M units have corridor connections at the unit ends a-la Class 350/450 whereas I don't think Chiltern 172s have them. The other problem is what I refer to as "The Cretin Factor" i.e. how long would it be before some cretin left the changeover switch in the wrong position! A few blue flashes and many electronic components having their smoke let out of them may result! Log in to reply |
| Marylebone Easter 2013 TT 14/07/2013 at 18:36 #47140 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:Karl,Yeah both BSI boxes but with different wiring configurations. No need for a month shut down, ATW redid the electrical wiring on the 175s without any major drama. " said: It's "just" Chilterns units that are wired the other way round, but that includes all of the DMUs they use. Having a switch easily accessible to change between the different types is probably not to sensible, I'd hate to think what could happen if you threw the switch whilst in motion. As for banging two units together that are wired differently it usually results in not being able to get them apart again, and most of the MCBs tripping. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Last edited: 14/07/2013 at 18:36 by headshot119 Log in to reply |