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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work?

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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 02:07 #58120
maxand
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As forum readers will know from this other thread, it can be easy for someone like me, used to seeing a train's headcode appear when it enters from a siding, to overlook such trains when the siding entry lacks this luxury.

In my simple innocence I assumed all siding entry points had Train Describer (TD) berths built in until it was pointed out that this feature tends to be the exception rather than the rule. Where there is no TD berth the signaller, after accepting the train from the shunter (or sometimes just being told there is a train waiting on his doorstep) must set the route before he can interpose the train's headcode, and woe betide him if he guesses and sets the wrong route!

In an attempt to ensure this event did not escape my attention, I changed the colour of the "Train ready in siding" message to a more distinctive one and even added a sound. Neither works. Why not?

For example, in the default TT that came with Brighton, 5A21 enters from Hove Yard at 05:47. I click OK to accept train from shunter, then get a message to say it is waiting at signal 676 (the entry point from Hove Yard). However, no sign of train until I set a route from 676 to wherever. Why doesn't this message work?

Similarly for 5A35 entering from Preston Park Up sidings at 06:25 (entry signal 1241)

Trains entering from Lovers Walk Depot do have their headcodes displayed in TD berths.

Very disappointed by this.

Last edited: 01/04/2014 at 02:33 by maxand
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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 02:47 #58121
Late Turn
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I don't know exactly what circumstances cause the 'train ready in siding' message to be displayed, but what would it do that a phone call wouldn't? When you accept the train from the shunter (or are merely told about it), the first two (?) lines of the schedule are displayed, so you can pull off in the right direction and at the right time - and the phone call (which is all you'd get in reality!) is much more difficult to ignore than a line of text sitting amongst other lines of text!
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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 03:15 #58122
Hooverman
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Taking Hove yard as an example, when the shunter calls a train out, we would know from our station workings which way it was booked to go by its arrival platform at Brighton. But having said that in real life the panel 6 simplifies are about as much use as a chocolate tea pot for exact timmings around the triangle. What we would tend to do, would be to enter the trains ID into T674 TD berth and read its schedule on the CCF, then hey presto you know what time and where you are sending the train and to be honest as I work Brighton in real life I have a slight advantage.

When i play the sim and knowing that trains will enter from Brighton wall sidings, Hove Yard and Preston Park Sidings, i will pause the sim at the beginning and find all the expected trains and put them on to post it notes then unpause the sim (this could apply to any sim where you are learning and there are a lot of movememts out of carriage sidings that don't have TD berths). Which is certainly less stressful than in real life as you try and juggle simplifies, station working, Preston Park's idiots guild to ECS moves, radio calls from drivers calling themselves out of sidings, Hove Yard shunter calls, blocking the line to allow drivers walk across the line to gain access to the wall sidings and Lovers Walk depot sending trains out in a mad rush.

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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 05:47 #58123
Peter Bennet
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" said:

Where there is no TD berth the signaller, after accepting the train from the shunter (or sometimes just being told there is a train waiting on his doorstep) must set the route before he can interpose the train's headcode, and woe betide him if he guesses and sets the wrong route!

I think you should be able to insert the TD at the following signal and then the train picks it up as it proceeds. I think that's what Hooverman is saying (don't have the sim open at the moment).

Quote:

In an attempt to ensure this event did not escape my attention, I changed the colour of the "Train ready in siding" message to a more distinctive one and even added a sound. Neither works. Why not?

You mean the colour did not change and the sound didn't work but you still got the message?

Quote:
For example, in the default TT that came with Brighton, 5A21 enters from Hove Yard at 05:47. I click OK to accept train from shunter, then get a message to say it is waiting at signal 676 (the entry point from Hove Yard). However, no sign of train until I set a route from 676 to wherever. Why doesn't this message work?

What message did you not get?

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
Last edited: 01/04/2014 at 05:48 by Peter Bennet
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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 05:54 #58124
Hooverman
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What I was trying to say is at work we can insert the train ID in any berth we want (we choose T674 as its the most likely route for the train to be going) to see the timetable for it on CCF. In SimSig you can use that method or just use a post it note to the same effect.
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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 05:55 #58125
maxand
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Quote:
I don't know exactly what circumstances cause the 'train ready in siding' message to be displayed, but what would it do that a phone call wouldn't?
I guess for the same reason that other messages in SimSig can have sounds attached. If my attention is on a particular spot of bother somewhere else, and there are 15 drivers already phoning in to say they have stopped at a signal, and the Messages box can only display 5 or so lines without overlapping the panel view, I could easily miss a driver's call, particularly if there is no preceding shunter's call.

In real life I don't think a signaller would be beeped by a TRTS or a Train Entering Area, etc.

Hooverman's suggestion about pre-listing entries out of sidings is a good one when in the situation of "once bitten, twice shy". But if this is a first-time-through, the only way to foresee this would be to read the timetable in advance, sorted by entry and exit points. Must add this to my ever-growing list of hints and tips...

Still would like to know when this message is supposed to apply.

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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 06:10 #58126
maxand
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Peter Bennet asked:
Quote:
What message did you not get?

That's a bit like the old saying "you don't know what you don't know"!

Actually I get two messages displayed in relation to trains entering from Hove Yard and Preston Park. One is a grunt "OK" from me, the other is a message to say the train has stopped at signal xxx (the entry signal). I would have expected at least the latter to be in the chosen colour and accompanied by the chosen sound.

Actually, similar to Show (menu) -> List Permissions Given, it would be nice to have a Show -> Trains Waiting At Sidings. There is a way around this, of course: filter the Train List by train ID and look down the bottom for all the class 5s (ECS) to see if any are waiting at a siding entry signal, or filter by Status or Location and look up all the relevant sidings.

To Hooverman: Yes, I find a little sticky note with the entering train's headcode indispensable to be able to find out its route. The most important thing is to set the route immediately after clicking OK so as not to forget about the train! TimTamToe calls this the FAT (Forgot About Train) syndrome. I reckon it deserves a glossary entry of its own.

Hooverman:
Quote:
Which is certainly less stressful than in real life as you try and juggle simplifie(r)s, station working, Preston Park's idiots guild (guide?) to ECS moves, radio calls from drivers calling themselves out of sidings, Hove Yard shunter calls, blocking the line to allow drivers walk across the line to gain access to the wall sidings and Lovers Walk depot sending trains out in a mad rush.
Glad to see the TT is so close to real life.

Last edited: 01/04/2014 at 06:18 by maxand
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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 06:58 #58127
Hooverman
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" said:
In real life I don't think a signaller would be beeped by a TRTS or a Train Entering Area, etc.
On our older panels, yes you do get an audible alarm along with the TRTS light and you also get an audible bleep from the train describer monitor when a train enters from a fringe area. On our panel 7 which is a newer panel you only get a visual idicator for TRTS at Horsham which sometimes gets missed.

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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 17:02 #58159
Lardybiker
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Max

When you get a phone call from a shunter with a train for you, here's something for you to try....
1) Answer the call straight away.
2) Look at the timetable noted in the call so you know where the train is coming from.
3) Note also the next location and determine what route it is taking.
4) Note the timing so you know when it's due out.

Now, sidings typically only have limited routes so there is only a couple of ways a train can go so the TT data should in most cases be enough for you to work out which route the train is going to take. However, it might not be...so here's what to do next....

If you know what route the train needs to take and it's due an imminent departure, accept the train by selecting OK in the call, immediately go to that location and route the train out. Don't let it sit at the signal. Finally, put the trains ID in at the first available berth. That might be at the entry signal depending on what sim, what difficulty and what siding its coming in from but won't always be. If not, use the berth at the first controlled signal on the trains route.

Now, if you aren't sure where the train is going and it leaves immediately, immediately cancel the call (do not click the "OK" answer) and straight after either, insert the trains TD in an unused berth somewhere, or create a sticky note with the trains ID in it. Either way, use whichever method you've used to "Show timetable" to see the entire timetable giving you a better idea of what route the train is taking. You you know the route, immediately go back to the call, accept the train and route the train accordingly inserting the trains ID at the first available signal as mentioned above.

Lastly, if you note you have some time before you need to route the train, or for any reason you cannot set the departing route, then simply accept the train, and immediately put a sticky note next to the location as a reminder containing the trains ID and if needed the departure time (using a stick note works in cases where the entry point does not have a TD and many do not when playing in normal mode). The driver will call you from the red signal of course, so that acts as a reminder as will the sticky note. Once the time is up or the route becomes free, route the train and insert the ID as mentioned before then delete the sticky note.

The key is to deal with it as soon as you can. Now, this may work for you, it may not. It's how I do it and it's just one way to deal with phone calls from shunters. Others may have other ways and you may have your own. However, given your previous comments and the issues you seem to have, I am not sure how you are doing things currently is working for you so maybe this will help a little

Last edited: 01/04/2014 at 21:50 by Lardybiker
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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 17:26 #58160
AndyG
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" said:
The driver will call you from the red signal of course, so that acts as a reminder as will the sticky note. Once the time is up or the route becomes free, route the train and insert the ID as mentioned before then delete the sticky note.
Sometimes I'll simply put a reminder on that signal to remind me that there's a train waiting there (the clue's in the name). With luck and a fair wind, the memory will still know which route to set when a gap appears to let the train make its escape bid.

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 18:32 #58164
Danny252
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" said:
If my attention is on a particular spot of bother somewhere else, and there are 15 drivers already phoning in to say they have stopped at a signal, and the Messages box can only display 5 or so lines without overlapping the panel view, I could easily miss a driver's call, particularly if there is no preceding shunter's call.
That seems to be a pretty exceptional scenario, however - perhaps turning down failures would help if it's causing that much disruption?

Last edited: 01/04/2014 at 18:36 by Danny252
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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 23:03 #58183
maxand
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Thanks again everyone, and especially Lardybiker for your detailed reply.

I'm still not much wiser, though, about when this "Train ready in siding" message occurs. As you know, I've tried attaching a sound file and given it a distinctive colour. Can any of the developers tell me what event triggers it, or can anyone prove that it works for them, maybe in one of the other sims (preferably a free one)? In fact, does anyone here use it at all? My other sound files seem to work for me, and I was using the same sound file already assigned to another message (slot release/request) that works OK there.

I would imagine that this message appears when the train stops at the first (shunt) signal marking entry to the panel, whether or not a TD berth has been created for it.

Thanks, I'm sure this will help others who also have siding entry problems.

Last edited: 01/04/2014 at 23:07 by maxand
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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 23:17 #58184
pedroathome
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Thinking about it here, I think Maxand does have a point here that it is something which is in the list of options for sounds, popups etc, but does not seem to happen (something like the train waiting at red light message which has suddenly appeared)

Is this possibly an oversight in the core code?

James

Last edited: 01/04/2014 at 23:17 by pedroathome
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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 01/04/2014 at 23:27 #58187
GeoffM
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" said:
I'm still not much wiser, though, about when this "Train ready in siding" message occurs. As you know, I've tried attaching a sound file and given it a distinctive colour.
First glance looks like a <> instead of a >= but I need to think a bit more first. Any simulations with an "easy" mode will show it working - Brighton does not though maybe you need it? :lol:

SimSig Boss
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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 02/04/2014 at 01:31 #58191
maxand
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I would have expected this message to play an assigned sound no matter what mode was selected, and since it's undoubtedly in the core code, it should apply across all sims.

Agree, it's not essential to my enjoyment of Brighton. Will try it on other sims now to see if I can make it work.

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Why doesn't "Train ready in siding" message work? 02/04/2014 at 02:22 #58192
GeoffM
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" said:
I would have expected this message to play an assigned sound no matter what mode was selected, and since it's undoubtedly in the core code, it should apply across all sims.

Agree, it's not essential to my enjoyment of Brighton. Will try it on other sims now to see if I can make it work.
I was pointing out where I believe one could find a working example.

SimSig Boss
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