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ConvData and WTR files

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ConvData and WTR files 09/04/2014 at 03:03 #58592
maxand
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From Clive's SimSig timetable data converter page:

To include rules in conversions, the R flag must be used. The name of the rules file is derived from the name of the timetable file by
changing the final t to an r. So either of the commands:

ConvData -CR my_tt.wtt my_tt.txt
ConvData -cR my_tt.txt my_tt.wtt

will use the rules file my_tt.wtr...

Does this mean that
(1) if my_tt.txt contains rules, ConvData automatically generates a my_tt.wtr file at the same time it creates my_tt.wtt? and
(2) if there is a my_tt.wtr file in the same folder as my_tt.wtt, ConvData automatically includes its data in my_tt.txt?

I'd just like to clarify this before starting to mess around. Of course in the new loader versions, .wtr files aren't used any more as their contents are incorporated into .wtt files. Thanks.

Last edited: 09/04/2014 at 03:08 by maxand
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ConvData and WTR files 09/04/2014 at 05:41 #58594
Peter Bennet
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I find it easier just to use the interface in-built to the Sims under f4 [import/export] where you simply tick the box. This needs to be an .exe Sim (any Sim will do) as the Loader is not currently compatible with Convdata. And, yes, if you tick the box a WTR file will be created.

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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ConvData and WTR files 09/04/2014 at 08:29 #58600
Sacro
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" said:
From Clive's SimSig timetable data converter page:

To include rules in conversions, the R flag must be used. The name of the rules file is derived from the name of the timetable file by
changing the final t to an r. So either of the commands:

ConvData -CR my_tt.wtt my_tt.txt
ConvData -cR my_tt.txt my_tt.wtt

will use the rules file my_tt.wtr...

Does this mean that
(1) if my_tt.txt contains rules, ConvData automatically generates a my_tt.wtr file at the same time it creates my_tt.wtt? and
(2) if there is a my_tt.wtr file in the same folder as my_tt.wtt, ConvData automatically includes its data in my_tt.txt?

I'd just like to clarify this before starting to mess around. Of course in the new loader versions, .wtr files aren't used any more as their contents are incorporated into .wtt files. Thanks.
(1) Yep
(2) As far as I know (I've never seen a need to convert back)

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ConvData and WTR files 09/04/2014 at 08:30 #58602
Sacro
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" said:
...as the Loader is not currently compatible with Convdata.r
The loader doesn't need to be, it just passes the command line arguments over. It's more likely the timetable format is the compressed XML based one.

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ConvData and WTR files 09/04/2014 at 09:02 #58605
maxand
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Thanks Peter for the Import/Export tip.

Sacro wrote:
Quote:
I've never seen a need to convert back

I find converting .wtt to .txt handy for dissassembling expertly written TTs to see what makes them tick.

Personally, I don't mind using the old-fashioned MS-DOS box (Command) interface. In Windows 7, click Start, then in the box at the bottom with the default field "Search programs and files", type "com". This should display an icon at the top named "Command prompt". Click it and an Administrator Command Prompt window opens (black background). You will probably need a user account with Administrator privileges. But there are other modifications you can make to Windows to open a Command window directly.

Now navigate to the folder where you have stored ConvData.exe. (Even better, create a folder named "CONVDATA" high up in the directory tree (e.g., C:\CONVDATA) and store it there along with any timetable .wtt or .txt files.) Type "c:\convdata" to navigate to this folder. Maybe also include "c:\convdata;" in your Path statement (look this up).

I suggest compose your ConvData command in a text editor first, e.g.,
convdata -cR rt1.txt rt1.wtt
where rt1 is the name of your test timetable.

Then, copy it to your Windows clipboard, R-click the little black icon at the top LH corner of the Command Prompt window, select Edit, then Paste so it appears next to the C:\CONVDATA prompt. The whole line should read like this:
C:\CONVDATA>convdata -cR rt1.txt rt1.wtt
Press Enter to run the command.

Most likely you will get a syntax error and will need to run the command again. After editing and saving your rt1.txt file, PRESS THE UP ARROW. This will copy the last command to save you having to re-paste or re-type it (good tip). Press Enter again to run it. If pressing the Up arrow doesn't work for you on earlier operating systems, pressing F3 may have the same effect.

Last edited: 09/04/2014 at 09:05 by maxand
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ConvData and WTR files 09/04/2014 at 09:18 #58606
Peter Bennet
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" said:
Thanks Peter for the Import/Export tip.

Sacro wrote:
Quote:
I've never seen a need to convert back

I find converting .wtt to .txt handy for dissassembling expertly written TTs to see what makes them tick.

Personally, I don't mind using the old-fashioned MS-DOS box (Command) interface. In Windows 7, click Start, then in the box at the bottom with the default field "Search programs and files", type "com". This should display an icon at the top named "Command prompt". Click it and an Administrator Command Prompt window opens (black background). You will probably need a user account with Administrator privileges. But there are other modifications you can make to Windows to open a Command window directly.

Now navigate to the folder where you have stored ConvData.exe. (Even better, create a folder named "CONVDATA" high up in the directory tree (e.g., C:\CONVDATA) and store it there along with any timetable .wtt or .txt files.) Type "c:\convdata" to navigate to this folder. Maybe also include "c:\convdata;" in your Path statement (look this up).

I suggest compose your ConvData command in a text editor first, e.g.,
convdata -cR rt1.txt rt1.wtt
where rt1 is the name of your test timetable.

Then, copy it to your Windows clipboard, R-click the little black icon at the top LH corner of the Command Prompt window, select Edit, then Paste so it appears next to the C:\CONVDATA prompt. The whole line should read like this:
C:\CONVDATA>convdata -cR rt1.txt rt1.wtt
Press Enter to run the command.

Most likely you will get a syntax error and will need to run the command again. After editing and saving your rt1.txt file, PRESS THE UP ARROW. This will copy the last command to save you having to re-paste or re-type it (good tip). Press Enter again to run it. If pressing the Up arrow doesn't work for you on earlier operating systems, pressing F3 may have the same effect.

Sounds like a lot more clicks and faffing about than simply f4> import/export> find wtt/txt> tick box> execute.

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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ConvData and WTR files 09/04/2014 at 20:45 #58632
clive
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" said:

Does this mean that
(1) if my_tt.txt contains rules, ConvData automatically generates a my_tt.wtr file at the same time it creates my_tt.wtt? and
If you specify -R, yes.

Quote:

(2) if there is a my_tt.wtr file in the same folder as my_tt.wtt, ConvData automatically includes its data in my_tt.txt?
If you specify -R, yes.

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ConvData and WTR files 09/04/2014 at 21:47 #58634
Lardybiker
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771 posts
" said:
Personally, I don't mind using the old-fashioned MS-DOS box (Command) interface. In Windows 7, click Start, then in the box at the bottom with the default field "Search programs and files", type "com". This should display an icon at the top named "Command prompt". Click it and an Administrator Command Prompt window opens (black background).

You will probably need a user account with Administrator privileges. But there are other modifications you can make to Windows to open a Command window directly.
FYI....
You can type in CMD in the search box instead of COM and hit enter and a command prompt window will open (saves you having to use the mouse at all and is WAY faster).

I'd avoid the use of the word "Administrative" in the name. It's just a command prompt. Yes, you can do administrative things in it but its not only for that.

Also, any user can open a command prompt but its capabilities therein rely entirely on the permissions of the user who opened it. It won't allow you to do any more than you could from the GUI unless you specifically requested extended permissions (such as opening is as the super-admin).

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ConvData and WTR files 13/04/2014 at 19:29 #58834
bill_gensheet
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The loader doesn't need to be, it just passes the command line arguments over. It's more likely the timetable format is the compressed XML based one.[/quote]

Put from a user perspective, a timetable that has been edited via F4 in a loader sim (single WTT) does not convert to a text file unless it is very simple indeed (no activities for one).

Bill

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ConvData and WTR files 13/04/2014 at 22:20 #58848
Sacro
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" said:
Put from a user perspective, a timetable that has been edited via F4 in a loader sim (single WTT) does not convert to a text file unless it is very simple indeed (no activities for one).
The existence (or lack of) activities has no effect on whether it will convert or not, only if the timetable has been saved as compressed XML.

I am going to be working on a tool to convert the files between various formats over the next few weeks however.

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ConvData and WTR files 14/04/2014 at 07:23 #58854
Forest Pines
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Now that timetables are XML it should be a relatively easy job.

Back in the mists of time - well, about 15 years ago - I tried to write a SimSig timetable formatter. It only worked with Liverpool St, it fed its output into a convoluted toolchain, and it didn't cope with overtaking trains very well. I tried to upgrade it to cope with Didcot but didn't think requiring the formatter to have a hardcoded topology for each sim would be a scalable process even when there were just two. Nevertheless, on a previous version of this site, you could download a PDF version of the default LiverpoolSt ttimetable that my formatter had produced.

Now that I'm older - and that the timetable format has grown features I don't remember it having in the first version - I can see my way around a few of the issues I had before. Moreover, even if direct output-to-PDF is still beyond me, HTML/CSS output might actually be tolerable nowadays. I think I might give it a goaagain.

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ConvData and WTR files 15/04/2014 at 04:02 #58906
Hawk777
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If you wanted output-to-PDF without the data format hassle, you could consider generating LaTeX code.
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ConvData and WTR files 15/04/2014 at 07:10 #58909
Forest Pines
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" said:
If you wanted output-to-PDF without the data format hassle, you could consider generating LaTeX code.
Funnily enough, that was the "convoluted toolchain" I was referring to!

LaTeX is amazing for what it does - my degree dissertation would have driven me crazy without it - but I wouldn't consider it as an output format for anything I'd intend "normal users" to run nowadays. The toolchain is simpler than it was, but doing something "outside the box" still isn't easy. It has very firm ideas about good-looking design which make it tricky to produce a good-looking timetable.

(I'm not sure if I would use it to produce a dissertation or a thesis now even - I'd probably switch to Scrivener unless I found I really couldn't give up BibTeX)

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ConvData and WTR files 17/04/2014 at 03:20 #59018
Hawk777
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Actually, the toolchain problem is trivial. There are online LaTeX editors with integrated compilers implemented server-side, so you can basically just copy-and-paste LaTeX source into a form on the site, push a button, and get a PDF back. I agree it’s probably not the ideal way to generate a timetable though; it’s not really meant for documents of that nature.
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ConvData and WTR files 17/04/2014 at 10:59 #59025
Danny252
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As a frequent user of Latex, I believe that anyone who would even consider trying to use it to format timetables must be totally and utterly insane...

(Using it for its intended purpose only requires mild insanity)

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