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Sheffield Sim 11/04/2014 at 17:51 #58710
ZephyrLuke
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Afernoon everyone!

As Sheffield is my local sim, I'm making a timetable based on the current WTT, however I am a bit stuck.

First of all, units are held overnight on Platforms 3 and 4 and also the Down Station Sidings, is there any way to replicate this or would I have to path units from the sidings to there?

Secondly, I'm having a bit of trouble assigning characteristics to Freight services - could anyone help with this?

Finally, I'm also stuck on what services are operated by which unit types (I.e 3-car 158 and not 2-car and similar occurances). Is there any way to maintain the high level of detail without just assuming (there's a big difference between a single and double Voyager!)?

AHA,
LDJ

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Sheffield Sim 11/04/2014 at 18:07 #58713
Steamer
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3922 posts
" said:
First of all, units are held overnight on Platforms 3 and 4 and also the Down Station Sidings, is there any way to replicate this or would I have to path units from the sidings to there?
Not on Sheffield. It's possible on Loader simulations, but Sheffield was released on an earlier version of the core code. You'll have to have a series of trains entering from the station sidings at midnight, which shunt to platforms 3 and 4.

Quote:
Finally, I'm also stuck on what services are operated by which unit types (I.e 3-car 158 and not 2-car and similar occurances). Is there any way to maintain the high level of detail without just assuming (there's a big difference between a single and double Voyager!)?
As far as I know: TPE services to Cleethorpes tend to be a single 185 or two 170s, Hope Valley stoppers are 142s, and EMT Liverpool/Norwich services are two 158s. XC don't tend to pair up Voyagers, but I don't know which services are 220 and which are 221. I think there's a website that has the XC HST diagrams on it though.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Sheffield Sim 11/04/2014 at 18:08 #58714
Lardybiker
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771 posts
I can't give you much help you with (2) or (3), but I can answer (1).

Unfortunately, not at the minute. The feature you'd need is called "seeding" but as Sheffield is relatively old (least by SimSig core code standards), it does not include it. When Sheffield is next updated, it will contain all the current features including seeding so you'd be able to seed trains in the correct spots. However, as I am not the Sheffield sim developer, I can't give you any idea as to if and when an updated version may be released so you are best to stick with what is available now. So, your only option really is to enter a train from somewhere close and maneuver it into the correct position prior to it being needed. That's what the original TT's do.

As for (2) and (3), there are people on here far more knowledgeable about timetables than I so I'll leave it to them to help you.

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Sheffield Sim 11/04/2014 at 19:02 #58717
Forest Pines
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I'm midway through writing a Sheffield October 2013 timetable myself. There are some sources of information and some you can use deduction for. Searching the web can show photos of individual services. Published timetables showing divides/joins will give you useful information - for example a Liverpool-Norwich with a Nottingham divide must be a pair of units at Sheffield. Working out the full diagrams of individual units also helps - for example the fact that Northern Rail have a Class 153 that starts its day at Cleethorpes but ends up elsewhere tells you that there's at least 3 separate Class 153 units trundling around the Sheffield area on a given weekday. The XC HST diagrams are probably the easiest of the lot!
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Sheffield Sim 11/04/2014 at 19:22 #58719
Danny252
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" said:
Quote:
Finally, I'm also stuck on what services are operated by which unit types (I.e 3-car 158 and not 2-car and similar occurances). Is there any way to maintain the high level of detail without just assuming (there's a big difference between a single and double Voyager!)?
As far as I know: TPE services to Cleethorpes tend to be a single 185 or two 170s, Hope Valley stoppers are 142s, and EMT Liverpool/Norwich services are two 158s.
Even then, there are (were?) Liverpool-Norwich trains with only a single 158 - seemingly always rostered on the busiest train of the day.

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Sheffield Sim 11/04/2014 at 19:26 #58721
Forest Pines
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525 posts
" said:
" said:
Quote:
Finally, I'm also stuck on what services are operated by which unit types (I.e 3-car 158 and not 2-car and similar occurances). Is there any way to maintain the high level of detail without just assuming (there's a big difference between a single and double Voyager!)?
As far as I know: TPE services to Cleethorpes tend to be a single 185 or two 170s, Hope Valley stoppers are 142s, and EMT Liverpool/Norwich services are two 158s.
Even then, there are (were?) Liverpool-Norwich trains with only a single 158 - seemingly always rostered on the busiest train of the day.
Off the top of my head, it's about 50% with one and 50% with two.

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Sheffield Sim 11/04/2014 at 20:09 #58724
ZephyrLuke
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" said:
I'm midway through writing a Sheffield October 2013 timetable myself. There are some sources of information and some you can use deduction for. Searching the web can show photos of individual services. Published timetables showing divides/joins will give you useful information - for example a Liverpool-Norwich with a Nottingham divide must be a pair of units at Sheffield. Working out the full diagrams of individual units also helps - for example the fact that Northern Rail have a Class 153 that starts its day at Cleethorpes but ends up elsewhere tells you that there's at least 3 separate Class 153 units trundling around the Sheffield area on a given weekday. The XC HST diagrams are probably the easiest of the lot!
I didn't realise someone else was writing this timetable, if I did I wouldn't have started it! Perhaps I should give up and focus my efforts on the Summer '14 timetable?

I have been using RealTimeTrains and the WTT but both have restrictions on the data. I'm having to rely on my own knowledge along with my fellow enthusiast friends' knowledge.

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Sheffield Sim 12/04/2014 at 12:06 #58762
Forest Pines
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Quote:

I didn't realise someone else was writing this timetable, if I did I wouldn't have started it! Perhaps I should give up and focus my efforts on the Summer '14 timetable?

I have been using RealTimeTrains and the WTT but both have restrictions on the data. I'm having to rely on my own knowledge along with my fellow enthusiast friends' knowledge.
Well really that's up to you! But it makes sense to avoid duplicating work, and I think that was the original reason behind the Forthcoming Timetables topic on here - although you'd have to read back to last November to see I was planning to do Sheffield Oct '13.

My Sheffield one is one of three chainable tts; the others are Worksop and South Humberside. I thought of doing Trent but was wary of the amount of Nottingham layout changes; and I saved the Real Time Trains info for Doncaster on the same day for if that sim ever emerges. If you'd like to be involved in testing send me a PM. My own local knowledge is about 5 years out of date, which is why online photos are useful for train formation references.

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The following user said thank you: ZephyrLuke
Sheffield Sim 12/04/2014 at 14:13 #58768
ZephyrLuke
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" said:
Quote:

I didn't realise someone else was writing this timetable, if I did I wouldn't have started it! Perhaps I should give up and focus my efforts on the Summer '14 timetable?

I have been using RealTimeTrains and the WTT but both have restrictions on the data. I'm having to rely on my own knowledge along with my fellow enthusiast friends' knowledge.
Well really that's up to you! But it makes sense to avoid duplicating work, and I think that was the original reason behind the Forthcoming Timetables topic on here - although you'd have to read back to last November to see I was planning to do Sheffield Oct '13.

My Sheffield one is one of three chainable tts; the others are Worksop and South Humberside. I thought of doing Trent but was wary of the amount of Nottingham layout changes; and I saved the Real Time Trains info for Doncaster on the same day for if that sim ever emerges. If you'd like to be involved in testing send me a PM. My own local knowledge is about 5 years out of date, which is why online photos are useful for train formation references.
Hopefully one day someone will develop Doncaster (or even York which I have visited). I'm far from it myself - I'm sure the more experienced people are better suited for the job.

I agree with the duplication factor though, so I'll leave you to the Oct '13 tt, and if you decide not to do the Summer '14 one I'll give that one a go (though chances are it'd be far from perfect!). I've still got a lot to learn really so I'll keep practising and learning for then.

LDJ

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Sheffield Sim 12/04/2014 at 20:27 #58782
njimiller
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I get so excited when I see a thread with a title like this. I think the sim has been refreshed and I have to cancel all engagements for the next week! :)


Nick

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Sheffield Sim 12/04/2014 at 20:54 #58786
jc92
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I disagree with the 50\50 split of diagrams on the EMT services. I haven't seen a single unit diagram since eastcroft recieved extra units. Also steamer XC do double some voyagers for balancing purposes in the morning and evening.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Sheffield Sim 13/04/2014 at 06:02 #58798
Forest Pines
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" said:
I disagree with the 50\50 split of diagrams on the EMT services. I haven't seen a single unit diagram since eastcroft recieved extra units. Also steamer XC do double some voyagers for balancing purposes in the morning and evening.
I'm looking at data from October, from Real Time Trains. The attach/detach info it shows has a number of possible interpretations, but what it shows is that roughly half of eastbound services drop a unit at Nottingham and roughly half of westbound services attach one. The times of day of those moves, and information linked from Wikipedia, led me to my interpretation; I'm currently looking for photographic evidence.

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Sheffield Sim 13/04/2014 at 08:04 #58800
Splodge
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Anecdotally I regularly see these services from Cornbrook and Deansgate-Castlefield; the are usually two 158s but it isn't uncommon to see a single unit. Also 156s seem to be appearing a bit more often now; mostly as singles though I saw one in multiple with a 158 last week!.
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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