Page 1 of 1
| Timetable List - improvements 13/04/2014 at 01:32 #58796 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
As a result of discussions in this thread I would like to make two suggestions: 1) On the Timetables tab, add a radio button to sort trains by Entry times only, in addition to the current Departure/Entry times. This would shorten the list and make it quicker to scroll. I don't use the Departure time feature much (others might) as I tend to get my information from the Show Timetable window or even the Train List. Alternatively there could be a checkbox labelled Hide Departures. 2) Add an option to view the Timetables tab as a slimmed-down version, showing only the window frame and a scroll bar (no buttons on the RH side and no tabs), with minimal information in the title bar. As I usually need to widen the TT List window to display all entries fully, the width and height of this slimmed-down window should also be adjustable. Many text editors have this ability. The command to reduce to minimum display should be a toggle, i.e., pressing the same key combination or clicking the same icon should turn this feature on/off. This would considerably reduce the screen area taken up by the TT List and maybe permit users on smaller screens to keep it onscreen instead of minimizing it. Thanks for considering this. Last edited: 13/04/2014 at 01:34 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 13/04/2014 at 09:13 #58805 | |
|
TimTamToe
655 posts |
" said:As a result of discussions in this thread I would like to make two suggestions:The departure in the departure / entry times button, refers to new trains that will form and start within the sim, rather than a next departure of each train (wasn't sure if you realised this or not), so it is useful as the Show timetable and train list will only show trains that are already running in the sim. Click on hide entered trains will make the list shorter as you go on through the day. When in the timetable tab, if you type a headcode it will take you to it so no need to scroll. Gareth Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Timetable List - improvements 13/04/2014 at 09:16 #58806 | |
|
maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:The departure in the departure / entry times button, refers to new trains that will form and start within the sim, rather than a next departure of each trainThanks, I didn't realize that. It would still be nice though to filter by arrivals from fringes. Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 13/04/2014 at 11:24 #58810 | |
|
John
884 posts |
You already can. Sort By > Entry Location.
Log in to reply The following users said thank you: DriverCurran, larsht |
| Timetable List - improvements 13/04/2014 at 12:36 #58816 | |
|
JamesN
1575 posts 
|
Strictly it's a timetable editor, not a timetable list - while it is used by players as an aid to what is coming, any features added to it should not lose sight of it's purpose - to edit timetables. Your slimline proposal wouldn't have the buttons to edit TTs with. What's wrong with setting the simplifier to the first location after the entry point, it's very unlikely trains will overtake one another before the first timing point - or as a suggestion could the simplifier be ammended to include entry info? Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 14/04/2014 at 12:38 #58859 | |
|
maxand
1637 posts |
Hang on guys - you may have misunderstood me here. I wrote: Quote: It would still be nice though to filter by arrivals from fringes.John replied: Quote: You already can. Sort By > Entry Location.True, but what I intended was "filter by arrivals from ALL locations". Apologies for not making that clear. In other words, a list of trains, sorted by entry times not locations, entering the sim from anywhere (including accepting from yards and sidings), and excluding new services generated by existing trains (new TD, divide rear, etc.). The advantage of having a list like this is that one gets an idea how soon new trains will be arriving from outside one's area. "Sort by: entry time" would do this, with the above exclusions. Or to put it another way, if I have to manage a whole area, I don't want to have to hop from location to location to find which train arrives next. Once a train has already entered, it's up to me to keep track of whether it becomes or spawns a new service. JamesN replied: Quote: Strictly it's a timetable editor, not a timetable list - while it is used by players as an aid to what is coming, any features added to it should not lose sight of it's purpose - to edit timetables. Your slimline proposal wouldn't have the buttons to edit TTs with.The idea for my slimline proposal was taken from some text editors which, though fully featured apps when in main display mode, can be reduced to a tight window where most of their keyboard shortcuts still work. Pressing a key such as Esc immediately restores them to full-featured mode. In SimSig, though, pressing Esc would close the TT editor! When you spoke of a timetable list, that immediately suggested a solution. What must have begun life as a Timetable List seems to have grown into a fully fledged timetable editor but forgot to change its name. Why not rename it Timetable Editor and have done with it? I dimly remember my first encounter with it and a little voice inside wondered why I needed to delve into an editor just to view an overall timetable. What beginner wants to risk editing/corrupting TTs when all he/she wants is to find out when the next train is due? It's obvious to me now that the only reason for sorting by Departure/Entry time is that the database must contain ALL trains, including those created from existing trains, otherwise Sort by Identity would be incomplete. That doesn't mean that sorting by Departure/Entry time is equally useful; in fact, it bloats the list if all one requires is entry times. Well, there's one filter for Hide entered trains, so why not another one for Hide departing trains? That fixes that. All we need now is a new, separate window, properly named Timetable List, in sync with the one in the Timetable Editor but incapable of amendment. Plenty of precedent here. We already have Show Timetable, similar to Location List in the F4 Editor. It could have two tabs, one for display and the second with all options: Sort by (ID, Departure/Entry time, Entry Location, Exit Location) and with filters to hide entered trains and hide departing trains (which could be disabled unless sort option (2) is selected). I believe that having a separate Timetable List is better than trying to slim down an already obese Timetable Editor. Last edited: 14/04/2014 at 12:41 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 14/04/2014 at 13:08 #58860 | |
|
kbarber
1712 posts |
" said:Well, there's one filter for Hide entered trains, so why not another one for Hide departing trains? That fixes that.If I read this right, the only trains that would appear in that one would be those that terminate within the area, as all trains that run through will depart by definition. Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 14/04/2014 at 13:13 #58861 | |
Steamer
3922 posts |
" said:No- trains listed as Departures in F4 are those which originate within the area. Filtering out those trains would leave trains which enter the simulation at sidings and fringes. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 14/04/2014 at 13:29 #58862 | |
|
peterb
451 posts
|
What's wrong with Sort By > Departure/Entry Time?! Of course, with your current 'idea' of removing these buttons and functions, you wouldn't be able to do this. So what do you want?! Most of your suggestions would add features to the game which would not bring anything new to it and/or actually make it more complicated, especially for the novice user. It seems to me (and others) that what you're trying your best to do is run before you can walk. Most of your threads seem to be based on personal preference and not an actual appreciation of what would move the simulation forward. Your use of macros and the like - might work for you, but I'm not sure how they would contribute to the simulation in a positive way for everyone else, or how they would make playing these simulations any easier. From your many posts, I'm not convinced that you properly know your way around Simsig as a whole, or any particular simulation. It also doesn't seem as if you're able to accept this game as it is. I would suggest that you can only make meaningful suggestions for the improvement of a game after you have been playing it enough to know how to play it well, and understand how it works. Until you can demonstrate this, I can't take any of your posts seriously. I would challenge your stance that "Simsig is intended as a serious simulation". Nowhere in my ten years of playing this game have I seen it to be referred to as a 'serious simulation'. You're maybe confusing with with Tresim? Also, please don't respond with something along the lines of "thanks for your comments", etc. It's almost patronising. Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 14/04/2014 at 13:35 #58864 | |
|
JamesN
1575 posts
|
Timetable List has only ever been a timetable editor, it isn't an editor grown out of a list as you suggested. Why it's called Timetable list I don't know, but I'm sure 14, 15 years ago when it was written there was a good reason for the distinction - that distinction has survived countless iterations of code rewrites so it can be inferred that it's intended. As for having a seperate, streamlined timetable list we already do - Simplifier (F8) By comparison it is a relatively new tool, and it has previously been suggested that the ability to query entry points would be a useful addition, a suggestion I reiterated above. As an interim, calling up a simplifier window for the first location after the entry point should be giving you enough information. There is such a thing as too much information - again I'm trying to discern the root of the problem that has brought about the suggestion. Every entry, regardless of whether it's a mainline or a siding will be notified to the player in some way - either through the TD appearing in the approach berth and associated message, or phonecalls from a siding somewhere. I'm wondering if by trying to get ahead of yourself viewing timetable lists and writing war and peace on sticky notes you're losing sight of the primary objective which is to signal trains. As I said before if you're getting lost with the TT, losing descriptions then you're playing outside of your ability and you either need to slow the game down or choose s simpler sim. It's a harsh way of putting it, I accept that, but we all had to learn the hard way. What made SimSig enjoyable for me all those years ago was the challenge of learning and mastering it's complex operation. The suggestion has brought about some interesting points: 1) Naming of the F4 window belittles it's primary purpose of editing timetables 2) The F8 window isn't as powerful as it potentially could be. But aside from addressing those two aspects, I don't really see what else would be needed. A list of timetables is just a(nother) distraction from signalling the trains - which ultimately is the objective. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: DriverCurran |
| Timetable List - improvements 14/04/2014 at 14:05 #58868 | |
postal
5190 posts |
Paralysis by analysis and the desire for too much information getting in the way of operation. Perhaps it would help if Max could give us a list of the information he must have in front of him before he dares to touch a control so that we can collectively help him find a way to trim down the list to manageable proportions. He may then be able to start enjoying things like the rest of us do rather than disappearing up his own fundament in search of information while the TT goes to hell, lots of trains have a nice rest at a red signal while information is analysed and the PPM figures are through the floor. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Meld |
| Timetable List - improvements 14/04/2014 at 15:08 #58871 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
maybe something that could be taken from this (not that I would personally use it, but I imagine many would): I dont think theres an option for a client to view F4 on mplay at the moment, and sometimes simplifier doesnt give all the info you might want. much like F2 has now been extended to clients, maybe F4 could be extended read only to clients (as opposed to opening a duplicate copy of the sim.) "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 14/04/2014 at 15:33 #58875 | |
GeoffM
6282 posts |
Please keep the comments relevant to the topic being discussed, not about the poster suggesting the discussion. The timetable editor is just that: an editor. It's not really designed for in-game play, though I know people do use it. The simplifier is a tool that could be used more, and could be improved more (entry points being one such feature). SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 14/04/2014 at 15:36 #58876 | |
northroad
870 posts |
Signalling Centre simulations have just what your looking for Max. With their timetable editor provided with the simulation you can pick out more than one location at any onetime and have a scrolling timetable similar to what your looking for.
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Timetable List - improvements 15/04/2014 at 03:39 #58903 | |
|
maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks northroad. Wasn't aware of that one. They certainly look a lot more commercial, they don't have a forum, and none of their simulations come at unbeatable prices. Haven't trialled any but cross-fertilization of ideas isn't a bad thing. Besides, I've come to like SimSig despite its little peculiarities. I was serious when suggesting that a simple non-editable Timetable List limited to entry times might be a great feature for SimSig. If a timetable has gone through a few versions it is probably virtually bug-free so newcomers to a sim using it as a default TT won't be faced by unexpected problems that more experienced players take in their stride. Last edited: 15/04/2014 at 03:40 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 15/04/2014 at 04:27 #58907 | |
|
Hawk777
386 posts |
Pretty much the only two cases where I go to the timetable editor—though I’d much rather not have to—are:
Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 15/04/2014 at 09:17 #58919 | |
|
maxand
1637 posts |
Tried out SigCent's Kings Cross sim. They have a "Predefined Timetable Listing Editor" which resembles our Simplifier, so classifies according to location rather than time. However, they also have what they call a "Train Arrival Tracker" in the menu but an "Arriving Trains Tracker" when you open the window. The general idea is what I'd really like to see in SimSig (as a "Timetable List" or "Arrivals List"  but I don't like it for three reasons:1) the "Due" column should have the actual time, not a time interval; 2) the "Service" would have been better divided into 2 columns, with headcode in one and details in another. 3) it doesn't seem to display arrivals for more than the next four trains or 15 minutes ahead, a bit like our tram stops. Titling the actual window differently from the menu option always looks amateurish and the wordiness of the title does not help either. They should have named it Train Arrivals and have done with it. But there are so many other things wrong with this product. The panel looks like a toy panel. We seem to be spared the blessing (or curse) of overlap segments, the colours are non-standard and the signal lights have unnecessary and annoying rings around them. I was unable to download any kind of a manual, and some of the sims will only run on 32-bit Windows and have even more primitive, unrealistic displays. About the only good thing one can say about this sim is the large overview panel and the miniaturization of the main panel so one can fit in more. But in balance, SimSig wins hands down and just needs multiple monitors to do it full justice. Last edited: 15/04/2014 at 09:22 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 15/04/2014 at 12:56 #58923 | |
|
postal
5190 posts |
The information is already available but not accessible without a few clicks and scrolls. If you go into F4 and have it sorted by entry time, you can fairly quickly pick out a train due to enter imminently (particularly if you have hidden the already-entered trains). The front tab of the TT for the train includes a field showing the expected difference between due and actual entry time (negative numbers mean early entry). On that basis, presumably any sort of "trains approaching" list would be a task of collating existing data rather than having to define a new dataset. That all sidesteps the question about whether a real-life signaller has that sort of screen (and if not, why should we have it in SimSig)? “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Timetable List - improvements 15/04/2014 at 19:29 #58933 | |
|
Signalhunter
177 posts |
" said:Via TOPS/TRUST etc. a "real" signaller has access to lots of information. However, they aren't trying to run the whole box at Kings Cross (or wherever) but, just a single panel. Given that SimSig signallers are also Control Office staff, drivers and, sometimes, shunters we "work" a lot harder (AT HAVING FUN) than they do for real. So, the extra information can be very useful. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |