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NR NMT 01/09/2014 at 19:32 #64298
Danny252
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The munits page on the wiki and other sources currently disagree on the maximum speed of the NMT (HST+5) - I can't find any other source that says it is restricted to 110mph (as per the wiki), but plenty that give 125mph. Has this been changed since the page was created, or is it an error?
Last edited: 01/09/2014 at 19:32 by Danny252
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NR NMT 01/09/2014 at 19:40 #64300
JamesN
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Could've changed since I wrote it (it had MkIIs in the formation then!)

I'm vary wary of making the list too now-centric. What was initially a simple table when I wrote it is rapidly becoming incredibly complicated with projected introduction dates, complicated lists of operators, and other bits and bobs I refer to as "spotting notes". I find myself saying again, it's not an online platform 5 book, it's an aid to TT writers containing the information relevant to SimSig timetable writing. A description that identifies it eg: 377(3) for 3 car 377; length; speed; power and accel.

/rant

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NR NMT 01/09/2014 at 19:51 #64301
headshot119
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" said:
Could've changed since I wrote it (it had MkIIs in the formation then!)

I'm vary wary of making the list too now-centric. What was initially a simple table when I wrote it is rapidly becoming incredibly complicated with projected introduction dates, complicated lists of operators, and other bits and bobs I refer to as "spotting notes". I find myself saying again, it's not an online platform 5 book, it's an aid to TT writers containing the information relevant to SimSig timetable writing. A description that identifies it eg: 377(3) for 3 car 377; length; speed; power and accel.

/rant
I've reverted a couple of edits that went into far too much detail over the class 68s, I agree with you, it's not a spotters book.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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NR NMT 01/09/2014 at 20:04 #64303
Danny252
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" said:
Could've changed since I wrote it (it had MkIIs in the formation then!)

I'm vary wary of making the list too now-centric.

...
MkIIs would certainly explain it - it appears they had been replaced by 2007 or so. I've left a note about the change (assuming that it's the reason!).

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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 07:22 #64318
onlydjw
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The NMT has had mk 2's in it again since roughly June/July 2014, and is now 2 + 6 since that point.
God bless, Daniel Wilson
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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 14:23 #64326
Noisynoel
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The consist for the NMT changes according to what is required to be tested, eg if it's not on OHLE lines then they won't take a panto car, and what is available for use.
Noisynoel
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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 14:46 #64328
Gwasanaethau
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" said:
Could've changed since I wrote it (it had MkIIs in the formation then!)

I'm vary wary of making the list too now-centric. What was initially a simple table when I wrote it is rapidly becoming incredibly complicated with projected introduction dates, complicated lists of operators, and other bits and bobs I refer to as "spotting notes". I find myself saying again, it's not an online platform 5 book, it's an aid to TT writers containing the information relevant to SimSig timetable writing. A description that identifies it eg: 377(3) for 3 car 377; length; speed; power and accel.

/rant

Maybe I should explain why I edited the 377 entries: I had no idea it was causing such a furore as it hasn’t been edited/adjusted since I touched it at the beginning of the year.

Before I edited it, there were just two entries for 377: 377 (3) and 377 (4). The 377 (3) entry had AC/DC power outlined, which was incorrect, so I updated this. 377 (4) had DC-only selected, which didn’t tell the whole story. The vast majority of 377 (4) are DC-only, but there are a few that are AC/DC, so simply updating the info to AC/DC would be incorrect and misleading. To make matters worse, all FCC 377 (4) are AC/DC, and so are some Southern ones, but ONLY some. I therefore decided to split this into as I thought this would give enough information to potential timetable writers to make the best timetables they can. Let me give some examples:

A timetable writer wants to make a new 2014 timetable for Brighton. Both FCC and Southern operate part of their 377 fleet in this area. It would be correct for all FCC 377s to have AC/DC selected here. It would NOT be correct to have ANY Southern 377s (either (3) or (4)) with AC/DC selected.

However, if a timetable writer now wants to write a new 2014 timetable for Victoria Central, it is important to know that not all Southern 377 (4) (but at least some) have AC/DC capability as there is a power changeover zone in this sim. You cannot just divert any 377 service onto the West London Line, only very specific services made of AC/DC units can be sent that way. Simply stating 377 (4) | AC/DC in the unit list would not have given enough information here.

Now admittedly I could have merged 377/1 and 377/4 together, but seeing as this would leave 6 entries for 377s anyway (including the two 377 (5) entries I added that also have the same AC/DC|DC-only problem as the 377 (4)s), I thought that I would leave these separate for completeness’s sake.

I also added (and removed) the commissioning dates as time progressed so that people who wanted to write pre-emptive (future) timetables using the new classes could do so whilst ensuring that the new unit classes were not inserted into any past or present timetables in development at the time.

I thought that my extra knowledge in this field (considering I helped to commission some of the newer five-car units) would be beneficial. I am not a ‘spotter’, so I do not know what constitutes ‘spotting notes’ (nor do I know why they would be ‘bad’) but if I have erred in my editing of the Wiki, please let me know so that I can avoid mistakes in the future.

Just throwing it out there too: I see that Class 460s are still in the current list but haven’t existed for two years now. I am, however, reluctant to move them into the ‘Heritage’ section because I feel I’ll be shot down as they’re not ‘Heritage’ trains (i.e. not from the British Rail era). Also, what happens when FCC becomes GTR in two weeks’ time? Does this mean that there should be dates inserted as to when each company ran each train? Or is that also too much?

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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 14:56 #64329
Steamer
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" said:
Just throwing it out there too: I see that Class 460s are still in the current list but haven’t existed for two years now. I am, however, reluctant to move them into the ‘Heritage’ section because I feel I’ll be shot down as they’re not ‘Heritage’ trains (i.e. not from the British Rail era). Also, what happens when FCC becomes GTR in two weeks’ time? Does this mean that there should be dates inserted as to when each company ran each train? Or is that also too much?
Personally, I think the page should reflect present-day operations, so when the 'FC' operator code changes to something else, so should the operator code on the page. For those wanting to research historical timetables, there are various online resources documenting each class' operating history. The page would become unwieldy if we tried to document the various moves and swaps over the last 20 years and the whys and wherefores behind them.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 17:03 #64332
Temple Meads
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" said:

Just throwing it out there too: I see that Class 460s are still in the current list but haven’t existed for two years now. I am, however, reluctant to move them into the ‘Heritage’ section because I feel I’ll be shot down as they’re not ‘Heritage’ trains (i.e. not from the British Rail era).
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Username TIM in multiplayer
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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 17:12 #64334
GW43125
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" said:
" said:

Just throwing it out there too: I see that Class 460s are still in the current list but haven’t existed for two years now. I am, however, reluctant to move them into the ‘Heritage’ section because I feel I’ll be shot down as they’re not ‘Heritage’ trains (i.e. not from the British Rail era).
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
What if we add a 'former trains' section for those that aren't current, but weren't BR either?

Let me know what you think,
Jamie.

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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 17:40 #64336
Danny252
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To be honest, I don't see the point of the Heritage/Modern split at all - it doesn't do much for organisation, and it has certainly hindered me several times when I've been looking for a class. Why should there be two separate lists of DMUs? There's even fun things such as units still in use being "Heritage" (the Class 121 Bubble Car), but others scrapped in 1989 being "Modern" (the Class 151 Sprinter Prototype).

Of course, the splitting into DMU/EMU AC/EMU DC and so on is quite useful.

Last edited: 02/09/2014 at 17:47 by Danny252
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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 17:48 #64337
Muzer
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I would argue for splitting into "current" and "old" (or some other headings, meaning in use in regular mainline service and not in use in regular mainline service), and sub-splitting those into locos/DMU/EMU AC/EMU DC/etc.
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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 18:05 #64339
John 23
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" said:
The consist for the NMT changes according to what is required to be tested, eg if it's not on OHLE lines then they won't take a panto car, and what is available for use.
I had the great privilege of riding on the NMT from Exeter to Paddington about a year ago. The pan vehicle was included in the consist, but the pan wasn't raised between Heathrow Junction and PDN.

In passing: very impressive kit inside!

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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 18:07 #64340
dave26pg013
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current maximum speed of the NMT with the MK 11's in the rake is 90 mph

the MK 111's will return to the rake at the end of September, when the maximum speed in transit mode will again be 125 mph, and 120 mph when testing. The NMT pantograph has not been used for quite a while.

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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 18:15 #64342
dwelham313
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A pantograph coach was certainly used last week, as it brought the wires down between Peterborough and Huntingdon! I think it may have been MENTOR so not strictly an NMT vehicle.
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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 18:47 #64343
Danny252
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" said:
I would argue for splitting into "current" and "old" (or some other headings, meaning in use in regular mainline service and not in use in regular mainline service)
But why? If you're looking up the details for a given unit, it doesn't matter whether it's in use or not, as you've presumably already determined it is required for the TT being written.

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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 21:03 #64344
Muzer
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" said:
" said:
I would argue for splitting into "current" and "old" (or some other headings, meaning in use in regular mainline service and not in use in regular mainline service)
But why? If you're looking up the details for a given unit, it doesn't matter whether it's in use or not, as you've presumably already determined it is required for the TT being written.
Fair point - I just thought having a whole load of old units might clutter the list a little for people who mostly write timetables for the modern day (or vice versa).

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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 21:31 #64345
Steamer
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" said:
" said:
" said:
I would argue for splitting into "current" and "old" (or some other headings, meaning in use in regular mainline service and not in use in regular mainline service)
But why? If you're looking up the details for a given unit, it doesn't matter whether it's in use or not, as you've presumably already determined it is required for the TT being written.
Fair point - I just thought having a whole load of old units might clutter the list a little for people who mostly write timetables for the modern day (or vice versa).
They segregate themselves by virtue of their number- all the old Diesel Mechanical units are in the 101-139 range, with second generation starting at 139.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 02/09/2014 at 21:32 by Steamer
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NR NMT 02/09/2014 at 23:39 #64346
Danny252
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And by splitting them manually, you actually have to scroll further to find the modern units!
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