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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 18/11/2014 at 11:22 #65647
peterb
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This timetable can be found here

This is a Saturday timetable with additional East Coast services diverted via Carlisle due to engineering work. A couple of railtours and some engineering trains also feature.

Please use this thread for questions/comments/issues. Thanks!

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 18/11/2014 at 23:32 #65657
RainbowNines
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A few hours into this and enjoying it immensely. A more detailed description of the timetable may help others, though.

Meanwhile a single train can block up the up goods for at least an hour. Is this true of real life?

Great timetable so far, lots of conflicts and fun to play.

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 19/11/2014 at 14:22 #65663
HST125Scorton
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Very neat timetable enjoyed the first couple of hours. Will enjoy the rest towards weekend.
Aaron (AJRO)
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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 19/11/2014 at 17:15 #65664
Splodge
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" said:
Meanwhile a single train can block up the up goods for at least an hour. Is this true of real life?
I think in the real world, Carlisle Yard has a number of recessing sidings, so these booked trains wouldn't block each other. The previously available timetables have 'through' trains as two parts; one arriving at the yard and one departing with a rule determining the layover time. Without knowing the inner workings of the sim, it appears that Carlisle Yard effectively has a 'terminating' road and a 'through' road so trains with a through timetable block the through road.

There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 20/11/2014 at 20:17 #65684
Finger
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" said:
Meanwhile a single train can block up the up goods for at least an hour. Is this true of real life?

Good question! I tried to play this timetable to see this happen and actually got into even worse trouble - the trains (re)entering on the Up Goods blocked themselves and didn't move a bit. See the attached saves - 6M76 is one train, 0M44 is the other, both waiting on UG1/UG2 both in the first save and in the second one almost after an hour.

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 20/11/2014 at 21:10 #65686
peterb
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Thanks for the comments. It's probably worth saying that some of the freight trains are booked to run as required in real life but were included in the sim as 'always run'. Therefore this timetable is slightly busier, given all of the paths which didn't run on the day.

Carlisle Yard is another of those which is rather larger on the ground than is simulated. I've attached the yard plans which demonstrate this. The combination of this plus the increased number of trains means unfortunately you're more likely to get trains stuck on the Down/Up Goods. A number of trains do stop for a prolonged period in the yard before leaving again and I wonder if splitting and ruling these trains would help relieve some of the congestion.

More specifically Finger re: 6M76. 6M76 is stuck at UG1 and I had to SPAD it.
- I don't understand why UG1 was stuck at red.
- I also don't understand why 6M76 is on that road. 6M76 enters from Kingmoor Up Goods. It isn't a 'through' train. If you look at the plans, 6M76 should surely enter from UD1 or 2. I'd obviously raise that as a sim issue not a WTT issue.

I hope that somehow helps and gives a bit more insight into it.

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 20/11/2014 at 23:50 #65694
Finger
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Quote:
I also don't understand why 6M76 is on that road. 6M76 enters from Kingmoor Up Goods. It isn't a 'through' train. If you look at the plans, 6M76 should surely enter from UD1 or 2. I'd obviously raise that as a sim issue not a WTT issue.

I don't think it is a sim issue, as trains entering Kingmoor Departure Line behave just like you describe. I think it would be reasonable to just change the entry point of trains entering at Kingmoor Up Goods (there are only 2) to Kingmoor Departure Line if that's what would really happen. Maybe that entry point is only meant for seeding?

Other than that, splitting the trains that stop at the yard would be reasonable IMHO. Keep in mind however that if you specify entry time for the second train, it will be subject to extra delays (which might not be that bad in this case).

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 21/11/2014 at 10:49 #65695
peterb
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Noted re: Up Goods. I still don't understand why UG1 is stuck at danger though.

Obviously this has already been tested but I'd be interested to hear the experiences of others regarding backlogs through Carlisle Yard, particularly on medium/difficult sim settings.

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 21/11/2014 at 11:44 #65696
TomOF
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It wasn't possible to replicate all of the various sidings available in the yard.

What basically happens is that if a train is continuously timetabled through the yard it will need splitting in the timetable into two separate train entities, with the second train being entered at the yard unless it stops very briefly or runs through non stop. Is there more than one train in the yard complex? If one train stops for any length of time it might block a following train.

I'll have a look at the saves when I get a chance.

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 21/11/2014 at 17:16 #65699
postal
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" said:
It wasn't possible to replicate all of the various sidings available in the yard.

What basically happens is that if a train is continuously timetabled through the yard it will need splitting in the timetable into two separate train entities, with the second train being entered at the yard unless it stops very briefly or runs through non stop. Is there more than one train in the yard complex? If one train stops for any length of time it might block a following train.

I'll have a look at the saves when I get a chance.
You've also got to bear in mind that the code might make an early-running train which is booked for a 2-minute stop in the yard wait for its due time before departure which again could potentially block a following train.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 21/11/2014 at 18:45 #65701
TomOF
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I wound up having to delete 6M56, after which 0M44 was signalled out of the yard.

I'm not exactly sure as to why as my own data has moved on significantly since the last public release.

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 21/11/2014 at 19:11 #65702
RainbowNines
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Thanks for looking into it chaps... I would rate Carlisle as playable if it was 10% of what it is - a truly brilliant source of entertainment that I've struggled to find with the other free sims.

I know it's very naughty to ask, but are you approaching a release of your update Tom?

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 22/11/2014 at 10:01 #65718
TomOF
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I honestly don't know.
Sorry.

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 22/11/2014 at 20:58 #65728
peterb
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" said:
I'm not exactly sure as to why as my own data has moved on significantly since the last public release.
Thanks Tom, I take it this is your response to why 6M56 was stuck at red?

Another yard question - why is it that many incoming down trains entering the yard do so through the up departure lines? (Given they're up departure lines!) Is this something regularly done in practice?

Oh, and just a couple of wee bugs while I remember.

Trains seeded at CE487 (UG Floriston) don't clear the slot towards the yard, though I can understand why. Similarly trains seeded at Dumfries 1 remain at danger.

Last edited: 22/11/2014 at 21:20 by peterb
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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 23/11/2014 at 01:01 #65737
Finger
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" said:
Quote:
I also don't understand why 6M76 is on that road. 6M76 enters from Kingmoor Up Goods. It isn't a 'through' train. If you look at the plans, 6M76 should surely enter from UD1 or 2. I'd obviously raise that as a sim issue not a WTT issue.

I don't think it is a sim issue, as trains entering Kingmoor Departure Line behave just like you describe. I think it would be reasonable to just change the entry point of trains entering at Kingmoor Up Goods (there are only 2) to Kingmoor Departure Line if that's what would really happen. Maybe that entry point is only meant for seeding?

Other than that, splitting the trains that stop at the yard would be reasonable IMHO. Keep in mind however that if you specify entry time for the second train, it will be subject to extra delays (which might not be that bad in this case).

Just adding on top of that: As the Down trains in the yard behave exactly the same (ie. they block each other even if they entered the yard by different roads), down trains' timetables should be torn in halves, too.

While playing the timetable, I got the impression that class 6 trains should be given a little more power. Having them climb to Shap at 13 mph is a bit extreme IMHO.

There may be a funny bug in the sim: while playing 2000's era, I got a telephone from Lambrigg saying someone wants to cross. I wanted to tell them they are years late, but this wasn't given as a possibility. B)

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 23/11/2014 at 04:12 #65738
uboat
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try reverse train until it stops then reverse train again and it eventually appears.
6K12 also gets stuck at UG1.no 6M56 in timetable.

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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 23/11/2014 at 09:33 #65739
Steamer
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" said:

While playing the timetable, I got the impression that class 6 trains should be given a little more power. Having them climb to Shap at 13 mph is a bit extreme IMHO.
There's a known bug with the code that handles gradients on Carlisle.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Carlisle 11/10/14 (East Coast diversions) timetable 29/11/2014 at 22:25 #65891
uboat
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why finish at 27:00?
i finished at 24:45 after 1L61 arrived at Carlisle.

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