F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others)

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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 29/01/2015 at 12:39 #68545
maxand
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1637 posts 		The title of this thread is too short to include all my wishes, so here they are:

1) I would like to see Last Reported Status included (as a separate column) in the Train list, e.g., "00:29 early" just as in Show Timetable.

2) My Train List is the Loader version and displays only columns for ID, Dir, Status, Location, Length, Power, Workstation. I wouldn't mind restoring some of the original columns but it is so long since I edited them out that I've forgotten what to do to restore them and the Wiki page on this doesn't explain how. In any case I shouldn't need to delve into CSS mumbo-jumbo just to perform a simple task - there should be an easily accessible R-click context menu or similar with checkboxes for the columns desired, and even better, a means of rearranging the columns into a particular order. (In Windows Explorer, all one needs to do is drag one column over another to reposition it!)

(added) An additional benefit of (2) is that several more information possibilities can be included as optional items, e.g., whether train is currently ARS-enabled, without having to (a) r-click a train's headcode; (b) request current ARS status. Using a Train List in this way may not be prototypical (since Train Lists are only a feature of SimSig) but it would certainly assist players to create a customized version.

3) I remember requesting some time ago a simple option added to the context menu of any train to display its Show Timetable popup window directly from the Train List without first having to hunt for the train and then click its headcode. I don't remember whether this request was added to the official wishlist or howled down but it still seems like a very good idea. Incidentally, this would replace the need for wish (1) as "Show last reported status" is already on Show Timetable. However, there's nothing wrong with identical information being displayed in more than one location.

Of course there were others - selecting a train and clicking a hotkey would take you immediately to that train, etc. but that probably ended up in the too hard basket!
Last edited: 29/01/2015 at 13:03 by maxand
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 29/01/2015 at 15:06 #68548
intallonabile
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24 posts 		i'm an italian train dispatcher. In Italy, as in Switzerland, Austria or Germany, dispatcher has a great aid from train graph sheet
http://www.opentrack.ch/opentrack/images/otTrainGraph.gif

is this a feature that in a next future SIM SIG can introduce ?

sorry for my BAd English

Diego
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 29/01/2015 at 16:15 #68550
broodje
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180 posts 		As far as I know that is a feature british signalboxes don't have. I remember reading something about it in Modern Rail a few months ago. Funnely ebough, the author was quite sceptical about these graphs and how they would be helpfull for the signaller.
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 29/01/2015 at 16:28 #68551
LucasLCC
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94 posts 		I'd guess they're pretty handy for single lines, but not so much when it's double tracked.. Plus, with the amount of junctions in the UK compared to Europe, they would only be able to show short sections..
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 29/01/2015 at 16:50 #68553
peterb
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451 posts 		Fairly sure the topic of train graphs has been brought up here recently.

Anyway, I think with the timetable at hand and his knowledge of the area, esp. how long it should take different trains to traverse different sections I'm not sure it would be that much more necessarily. I'm sure such graphs are more useful to train planners (which we're not!)
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 29/01/2015 at 19:15 #68554
broodje
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180 posts 		" said:
I'd guess they're pretty handy for single lines, but not so much when it's double tracked.. Plus, with the amount of junctions in the UK compared to Europe, they would only be able to show short sections..

I think you underestimate the amount of jn. In (for example) the Netherlands an the length of track between them. Yet I know these graphs are used a lot. Even on 4 track mainlines. It is quite handy to know where an IC will pass the stopper and if it will fit on the slow lines for example.
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 30/01/2015 at 00:26 #68565
maxand
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1637 posts 		It would be nice if we could stay on topic.
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 30/01/2015 at 01:55 #68567
GeoffM
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6287 posts 		" said:
2) My Train List is the Loader version and displays only columns for ID, Dir, Status, Location, Length, Power, Workstation. I wouldn't mind restoring some of the original columns but it is so long since I edited them out that I've forgotten what to do to restore them and the Wiki page on this doesn't explain how. In any case I shouldn't need to delve into CSS mumbo-jumbo just to perform a simple task
It was your meddling in CSS mumbo-jumbo that got you into this mess in the first place! :lol:


" said:
(added) An additional benefit of (2) is that several more information possibilities can be included as optional items, e.g., whether train is currently ARS-enabled, without having to (a) r-click a train's headcode; (b) request current ARS status. Using a Train List in this way may not be prototypical (since Train Lists are only a feature of SimSig) but it would certainly assist players to create a customized version.
That is not possible because ARS is linked to TDs, not trains. For example, you can interpose a whole bunch of headcodes with no underlying train and ARS will quite happily route those TDs - and you can cancel a TD leaving a real train and no ARS TD. Or a TD can have the wrong headcode - again, ARS will route according to the headcode you type in, not what the actual train is. All per real life, of course.
SimSig Boss
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 30/01/2015 at 02:10 #68568
BarryM
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2158 posts 		We are on topic! Max, they are not a games! They are simulations. Have the real panels got it?

Go up to Melbourne's Metro Trains Train Service's Engine Room (That is what Metro call Network Control for kids). Tell them that your from Simsig in Australia and ask them "how do you run your services"? lol! :sick:

Barry
Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Last edited: 30/01/2015 at 02:11 by BarryM
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 30/01/2015 at 07:19 #68571
kbarber
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1712 posts 		" said:
As far as I know that is a feature british signalboxes don't have. I remember reading something about it in Modern Rail a few months ago. Funnely ebough, the author was quite sceptical about these graphs and how they would be helpfull for the signaller.

I think that was after a demonstration of one of the new Traffic Management Systems that's being developed for the new control centres (the system that Railtrack was going to have working the West Coast Main Line by 10 years ago...) It will be overlaid on existing systems and, by the tone of the article, will be a system to support decision making rather than a system for automatically doing the job (which seems to have been Railtrack's aspiration).

I recall the sceptical tone, the conclusion seemed to be that the system would provide data to assure the controller they'd made the right decision but would still - to a large degree - depend on good old new fashioned signalling/regulating skills for looking after traffic over a wide area.
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 30/01/2015 at 11:15 #68573
broodje
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180 posts 		You are right, I couldn't find the article, but it was indeed about the Siemens traffic management system. From what I could see on the pictures it looked the same as the system used over here. (here it is also used as an adviser, not as an automatic system). If I recall correctly it should also work on iecc and westcad systems.
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 30/01/2015 at 11:28 #68574
Ron_J
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329 posts 		Network Rail has bought the Thales ARAMIS traffic managent system, not Siemens kit. It does include a live train graph but as we've no tradition of using them in UK signalling practice it remains to be seen whether or not this function will be useful. The TMS stuff all looks very impressive but it requires a lot of cooperation from the TOCs in terms of crewing and timetabling data so it may fall at that hurdle in our fragmented industry.
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 30/01/2015 at 13:26 #68575
maxand
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1637 posts 		GeoffM wrote:
Quote:
It was your meddling in CSS mumbo-jumbo that got you into this mess in the first place!

Luckily I know enough about CSS (Cascading Style Sheets) to retrace my steps if I have to, but that's not the point. I'm sure there are many (if not most) forum members who know nothing about CSS and care less, but would still like to customize their Train List columns - if they could do so easily. That's the job of the developers. I'd also like to know where I can find a copy of the default CSS without having to reinstall SimSig. Maybe one could be attached to the Wiki page for download, along with adequate instructions on how to modify it. At least that's being constructive.

GeoffM also wrote:
Quote:
(whether train is currently ARS-enabled)is not possible because ARS is linked to TDs, not trains...

I don't understand your logic here, since I can easily R-click on a TD on the panel and display ARS information. Since the same TD is displayed on the Train List associated with that train, there seems no reason why the Train List "which displays what SimSig thinks the train is doing" cannot also display whether SimSig also "thinks" of its ARS routesetting status.

But I'll accept for now that to implement such a major step may be beyond the design limitations of the Train List, so I'll compromise by simply asking for a menu option to Show Timetable that can be triggered from the Train List. Surely that can't be too difficult.

BarryM, true to form, wrote:
Quote:
We are on topic! Max, they are not a games! They are simulations. Have the real panels got it?

Train graphs, though a laudable idea, don't feature in any of the requests in my original post, therefore they are off-topic as far as I am concerned. Maybe they should be moved to a separate thread.

I also don't see how train graphs can distinguish between SimSig being a game as opposed to a simulation. Have the real panels got it? Got what? Train graphs? I dunno and don't particularly care as I can't see them making my playing SimSig any easier.

Quote:
Tell them that your from Simsig in Australia and ask them "how do you run your services"?

I have no desire to be subjected to a body search prior to being forcibly ejected from a secure facility (if not worse). Luckily I bear no resemblance to a member of IS.
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 30/01/2015 at 16:25 #68582
Steamer
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3925 posts
Online 		" said:
GeoffM wrote:
Quote:
It was your meddling in CSS mumbo-jumbo that got you into this mess in the first place!

Luckily I know enough about CSS (Cascading Style Sheets) to retrace my steps if I have to, but that's not the point. I'm sure there are many (if not most) forum members who know nothing about CSS and care less, but would still like to customize their Train List columns - if they could do so easily. That's the job of the developers. I'd also like to know where I can find a copy of the default CSS without having to reinstall SimSig. Maybe one could be attached to the Wiki page for download, along with adequate instructions on how to modify it. At least that's being constructive.
I've attached the default one, although it would be good practice to make a backup.

" said:
GeoffM also wrote:
Quote:
(whether train is currently ARS-enabled)is not possible because ARS is linked to TDs, not trains...

I don't understand your logic here, since I can easily R-click on a TD on the panel and display ARS information. Since the same TD is displayed on the Train List associated with that train, there seems no reason why the Train List "which displays what SimSig thinks the train is doing" cannot also display whether SimSig also "thinks" of its ARS routesetting status.
Remember that the train list and the Train Describer are completely independent of each other. ARS works off the latter. To demonstrate this (assuming you're still playing my Summer 2014 TT on Swindon and it's still early morning), interpose '1A33' at signal 83 in the Bourton area. Even though the train isn't in the area and won't be until 20:30, ARS sees the train description and sets the route from 83 to UM71 (assuming there's nothing around that would conflict with it). All ARS functions are based off what the state of the train describer, the actual presence of a train is largely irrelevant*. This is also why ensuring trains have the correct describer is vital on ARS simulations. Of course, in normal operation the train describer follows the train around so it looks like ARS is connected to the train, but in reality they aren't. Bung a random description somewhere and as far as ARS is concerned, the train is approaching that signal and routes will be set accordingly- it doesn't check whether a train is actually there.

*UK signalling being what it is, there will be somewhere where ARS requires a track circuit to be occupied before setting the route, but these cases are in the minority.

Quote:
But I'll accept for now that to implement such a major step may be beyond the design limitations of the Train List, so I'll compromise by simply asking for a menu option to Show Timetable that can be triggered from the Train List. Surely that can't be too difficult.
Can't comment on whether or not it can be done, but I think you'd making life difficult by showing the timetable from the train list, instead of finding the train and showing the TT in the usual way. Without seeing where the train actually is and what's around it, there's very little to be gained from seeing its timetable.
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"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 30/01/2015 at 16:32 by Steamer
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 30/01/2015 at 17:17 #68585
kbarber
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1712 posts 		" said:


Remember that the train list and the Train Describer are completely independent of each other. ARS works off the latter. To demonstrate this (assuming you're still playing my Summer 2014 TT on Swindon and it's still early morning), interpose '1A33' at signal 83 in the Bourton area. Even though the train isn't in the area and won't be until 20:30, ARS sees the train description and sets the route from 83 to UM71 (assuming there's nothing around that would conflict with it). All ARS functions are based off what the state of the train describer, the actual presence of a train is largely irrelevant*. This is also why ensuring trains have the correct describer is vital on ARS simulations. Of course, in normal operation the train describer follows the train around so it looks like ARS is connected to the train, but in reality they aren't. Bung a random description somewhere and as far as ARS is concerned, the train is approaching that signal and routes will be set accordingly- it doesn't check whether a train is actually there.
A friend who shall be nameless worked out how to input a blank into a train describer transmitter. So the berth didn't flood when the train entered the PSB control area, but neither did the train seem to have a description. That foxed a few people at the time; what it would to to ARS...??!!!!!
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 30/01/2015 at 17:50 #68587
peterb
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451 posts 		" said:
Network Rail has bought the Thales ARAMIS traffic managent system, not Siemens kit. It does include a live train graph but as we've no tradition of using them in UK signalling practice it remains to be seen whether or not this function will be useful. The TMS stuff all looks very impressive but it requires a lot of cooperation from the TOCs in terms of crewing and timetabling data so it may fall at that hurdle in our fragmented industry.
Agreed. With the standard to which signallers are trained currently, I'm sceptical whether live train graphs would really be worth the hassle and cost of additional training.
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 31/01/2015 at 07:14 #68603
maxand
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1637 posts 		Thanks Steamer for making the ARS-TD relationship a lot clearer to me.

I've saved the default trainlist.css in a safe place.
Last edited: 31/01/2015 at 07:17 by maxand
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F2 Train List to include Last Reported Status (and others) 31/01/2015 at 10:45 #68608
BarryM
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2158 posts 		Max, I was referring to the Subject topic.

Barry
Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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