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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting?

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Released > Horsham > No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting?

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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 02:17 #73377
Muzer
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718 posts
I would have thought that the non-stop setting would have some method of cancellation should it be pressed in error. I could not find one, however, besides using the Incident Control Panel to operate the relevant track circuits!

Is this lack of a cancellation facility protoypical or is this a bug/oversight? Or have I just missed some obvious way of doing it?

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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 03:00 #73380
BarryM
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2156 posts
Thought of cancelling the signal concerned?

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 03:04 #73381
Muzer
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718 posts
Yup, tried that. Didn't seem to do anything to the stopping controls for 893, and 831 is an automatic with replacement button, which also doesn't seem to have any effect on the stopping controls.
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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 07:15 #73387
Hooverman
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303 posts
" said:
I would have thought that the non-stop setting would have some method of cancellation should it be pressed in error. I could not find one, however, besides using the Incident Control Panel to operate the relevant track circuits!

Is this lack of a cancellation facility protoypical or is this a bug/oversight? Or have I just missed some obvious way of doing it?
It is very prototypical and very annoying on the real panel as well. Also of note the selection for Warnham has always been set for the fast selection regardless of stopping pattern apart from a brief spell of a couple of weeks after it was fully commissioned several years after the rest of the panel. It's current status is that it prohibited from using it in the slow selection as part of SPAD mitigation for the drivers.

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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 07:58 #73388
Andrew G
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Apologies for going off topic slightly but I do sometimes scratch my head with bewilderment when additional 'manual' controls/processes are introduced as part of SPAD mitigation.

Without wishing to be seen criticising drivers surely the best form of SPAD mitigation is for a train to be stopped safely in rear of any signal shown an On aspect.

I saw a manual reminder on Signal 59 on a recent visit to Swindon PSB which is there to remind signallers not to set a route to this Signal when a Down Train is crossing from Platforms 1 to 3, despite a full overlap being provided.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/llangollen_signalman/17300740249/in/album-72157652512650406/

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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 09:14 #73391
pedroathome
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753 posts
" said:


I saw a manual reminder on Signal 59 on a recent visit to Swindon PSB which is there to remind signallers not to set a route to this Signal when a Down Train is crossing from Platforms 1 to 3, despite a full overlap being provided.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/llangollen_signalman/17300740249/in/album-72157652512650406/
As I understand it from when I visited, this isn't actually a full overlap as the points just ahead were moved closer to the signal or something, thus not giving the full overlap, but not by enough to require the interlocking to be modified. - If I have got this wrong I'm sure someone at Swindon could possibly explain

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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 15:53 #73401
Muzer
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718 posts
" said:
" said:
I would have thought that the non-stop setting would have some method of cancellation should it be pressed in error. I could not find one, however, besides using the Incident Control Panel to operate the relevant track circuits!

Is this lack of a cancellation facility protoypical or is this a bug/oversight? Or have I just missed some obvious way of doing it?
It is very prototypical and very annoying on the real panel as well. Also of note the selection for Warnham has always been set for the fast selection regardless of stopping pattern apart from a brief spell of a couple of weeks after it was fully commissioned several years after the rest of the panel. It's current status is that it prohibited from using it in the slow selection as part of SPAD mitigation for the drivers.
Hmm, but wouldn't that make the AHBC stay down for too long and increase the risk of LC abuse, which is presumably (based on the number of LC accidents vs other accidents) more likely than SPADs? Seems like strange logic to me. Or was it determined that even in the non-stop position, the LC is down for a short enough time for it not to be a problem?

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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 16:41 #73405
AndyG
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Note that Warnham in just R/G MSL, not an AHB.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 17:45 #73412
Hooverman
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303 posts
" said:
" said:
" said:
I would have thought that the non-stop setting would have some method of cancellation should it be pressed in error. I could not find one, however, besides using the Incident Control Panel to operate the relevant track circuits!

Is this lack of a cancellation facility protoypical or is this a bug/oversight? Or have I just missed some obvious way of doing it?
It is very prototypical and very annoying on the real panel as well. Also of note the selection for Warnham has always been set for the fast selection regardless of stopping pattern apart from a brief spell of a couple of weeks after it was fully commissioned several years after the rest of the panel. It's current status is that it prohibited from using it in the slow selection as part of SPAD mitigation for the drivers.
Hmm, but wouldn't that make the AHBC stay down for too long and increase the risk of LC abuse, which is presumably (based on the number of LC accidents vs other accidents) more likely than SPADs? Seems like strange logic to me. Or was it determined that even in the non-stop position, the LC is down for a short enough time for it not to be a problem?
The short answer is yes they will end up being down longer and there may or may not be crossing abuse. But that's how the selection control works so there is not much as signalman we can do about it.

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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 17:51 #73413
Muzer
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718 posts
" said:
Note that Warnham in just R/G MSL, not an AHB.

Aaah, sorry, I missed that. That makes more sense then.

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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 17:57 #73415
tgb
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As Horsham Drivers H&S Rep I went to a meeting two weeks ago with Network Rail as they wanted to re-instate the slow/stopping option on the panel. They wanted to reduce the risk of crossing mis-use as with a down train the crossing can be red for pedestrians for up to 120 seconds. However countering this they could not provide any evidence of mis-use due to people waiting that length of time. This added to the fact that us drivers hate coming into a station on to a red aspect and that Warnham platform is at the end of a two mile plus down hill section that has notoriously poor grip meant that the permanent fast setting is to be retained for the foreseeable future.
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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 21:23 #73423
Andrew G
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542 posts
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" said:
As Horsham Drivers H&S Rep I went to a meeting two weeks ago with Network Rail as they wanted to re-instate the slow/stopping option on the panel. They wanted to reduce the risk of crossing mis-use as with a down train the crossing can be red for pedestrians for up to 120 seconds. However countering this they could not provide any evidence of mis-use due to people waiting that length of time. This added to the fact that us drivers hate coming into a station on to a red aspect and that Warnham platform is at the end of a two mile plus down hill section that has notoriously poor grip meant that the permanent fast setting is to be retained for the foreseeable future.
Thanks for providing some insight from the Driving Cab.

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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 15/06/2015 at 22:33 #73426
Hooverman
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303 posts
" said:
As Horsham Drivers H&S Rep I went to a meeting two weeks ago with Network Rail as they wanted to re-instate the slow/stopping option on the panel. They wanted to reduce the risk of crossing mis-use as with a down train the crossing can be red for pedestrians for up to 120 seconds. However countering this they could not provide any evidence of mis-use due to people waiting that length of time. This added to the fact that us drivers hate coming into a station on to a red aspect and that Warnham platform is at the end of a two mile plus down hill section that has notoriously poor grip meant that the permanent fast setting is to be retained for the foreseeable future.
T831 at Warnham which is currently an auto signal with a replacement and with a stopping and non-stopping function attached to it, is due to be replaced with a controlled signal with an auto facility on it as part of the Thameslink carriage sidings works. This is to allow trains to shunt to and from the station to the new carriage sidings via a new fixed red signal T890 in the up direction on the Down Main just country side of bridge No. 66 Pondtail Lane Bridge. Mind you I've only got the scheme plan 6.0 so it's probably quite out of date in some areas by now as all plans get revised before the final scheme gets the go ahead.

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No (sane) way to cancel "non-stop" setting? 16/06/2015 at 07:29 #73430
kaiwhara
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522 posts
" said:
As Horsham Drivers H&S Rep I went to a meeting two weeks ago with Network Rail as they wanted to re-instate the slow/stopping option on the panel. They wanted to reduce the risk of crossing mis-use as with a down train the crossing can be red for pedestrians for up to 120 seconds. However countering this they could not provide any evidence of mis-use due to people waiting that length of time. This added to the fact that us drivers hate coming into a station on to a red aspect and that Warnham platform is at the end of a two mile plus down hill section that has notoriously poor grip meant that the permanent fast setting is to be retained for the foreseeable future.
And this is exactly the same argument I am having here with KiwiRail as one of our reps in Auckland, New Zealand. Apparently Cars and People have priority over trains...

Sorry guys, I am in the business of making people wait!
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