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| Looking for 4Q17 in 15-Oct-09 WTTs 20/01/2016 at 14:57 #79983 | |
Lyn-Greenwood
239 posts |
I need the help of the 15-Oct-09 WTT experts on the following mystery. While updating the Coventry 15-Oct-09 WTT recently, I found that train 4Q17 is missing from that WTT, but it does exist in surrounding areas (Stafford, Wolverhampton, Birmingham New Street, Leamington Spa and Rugby Central). However, its path round the system seems to get lost once it leaves Rugby Central on its way back to Coventry. Here's the path I've discovered so far: Enters the Stafford sim from Crewe on Up Slow at 22:16 and exits towards Bushbury Jn at 23/08. Arrives Wolverhampton at 23:12, departs at 23.25 and exits towards Galton Jn at 23/47H. Arrives B'ham New St. P1 at 24:01, departs at 24:03 and passes through B'ham Int. at 24/21H. The New St. WTT shows 4Q17 as passing through Coventry P2 at 24/42H. There is no info on 4Q17 in the Coventry WTT, but the Leamington Spa WTT shows it as entering from Kenilworth at 01/00H, arriving at Leamington signal LN113 at 01:14, reversing into P2 and departing there at 01:45 on its way back to Coventry. Again, nothing in the Coventry WTT, but the Rugby Central WTT shows it entering that sim at 02:19 (Up Coventry Stopping). It arrives at Rugby P1 at 02:44H and departs at 02:52 on its way back to Coventry. The Rugby WTT shows 4Q17 arriving at Coventry P4 at 03:17 and departing at 03:38, but this is where the trail goes cold and I can't find any information as to where 4Q17 goes after this. I don't have access to any raw material for 15-Oct-09, so is anyone able to advise where this mystery train goes following its departure from Coventry at 03:38? For info, 4Q17 is described as "22:00 Crewe C.S. (L&NWR site) - Derby RTC (Serco)", but I can't find any info as to how it gets to Derby and it doesn't appear in the Derby 15-Oct-09 WTT, so maybe it failed somewhere on that day and never got to Derby. Anyone got any info that will help unravel the mystery? Lyn Greenwood Log in to reply |
| Looking for 4Q17 in 15-Oct-09 WTTs 20/01/2016 at 15:38 #79987 | |
JamesN
1580 posts |
There seems to be a slight clash between 3 different authors work, and slightly differing opinions on how "true" the timetable should be to reality. The "issue" that causes this discrepancy is that the train only runs on Thursdays (15th Oct 2009 being a Thursday) - so it should, so the pureists would say, only appear in the last few hours of the timetable: 4Q17/$H76179 ThO 2200 CREWLNW-DRBYRTC (D 060) If I recall (it was a few years ago!) the original discussion, backed up by the then relatively safe assumption that neither a Rugby nor a Leamington sim could be produced, led to the first paragraph you describe - train enters from Crewe at 22:00ish, and vanishes into the "black hole" around 1am - never to be seen again. It was done that way as to have the train's full schedule in all sims, you'd have the train leaving Derby at 31:15! Under that philosophy the first run through Coventry, passing at 24/42½, is missing from the Coventry Timetable. More recently, both Leamington and Rugby have been produced, but the TT authors for those sims decided - I'm guessing to make the early hours more interesting - to include/duplicate 4Q17 at the beginning of the timetable. (as if it had started 2200 Wednesday) Strictly speaking not accurate, but it does make the early hours a little more interesting, so no real harm done. To fill in the early hours gap, I've attached a screenshot from our 15th Oct 2009 database - which should certainly contain all the information needed to put the relevant trains into Coventry, however there isn't a 00:03 seed in the New Street WTT, only a 24:03 - so if you're playing chained you won't ever see it!  The screenshot doesn't show Allowances - the only ones relevant to Coventry sim are 1 minutes Eng at Coventry both at 00/42½ and 02:19 Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 20/01/2016 at 15:46 by JamesN Log in to reply The following user said thank you: DriverCurran |
| Looking for 4Q17 in 15-Oct-09 WTTs 20/01/2016 at 17:35 #79999 | |
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Lyn-Greenwood
239 posts |
Thanks for the comprehensive reply, James. I didn't realise that 4Q17 ran on Thursdays only, so to be accurate the train should first appear on the Coventry sim at 24:21H, but as the Coventry WTT only goes up to 24:00, then I think it's best to leave well alone. In a chaining situation, because Coventry never sends the train to Leamington or Rugby, then they'll not send it back, so all will work correctly. Another query arose recently during a discussion with a fellow Simsig user which you can probably answer with authority. In the WTT editor, are the "Major, Minor, Build" values intended to indicate the version of the actual WTT itself or the Sim version under which the WTT was developed? I think it's the former, but my colleague thinks it's the latter. Maybe you can advise us which is the case? Lyn Log in to reply |
| Looking for 4Q17 in 15-Oct-09 WTTs 20/01/2016 at 17:43 #80000 | |
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TimTamToe
656 posts |
Hi Lyn, They relate to the timetable itself* and not the sim version which it was written on. From the wiki Quote: Gareth [sub] (* providing the tt writer remembers to update the numbers - guilty of forgetting to do that in the past)[/sub] Last edited: 20/01/2016 at 17:45 by TimTamToe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Lyn-Greenwood |
| Looking for 4Q17 in 15-Oct-09 WTTs 20/01/2016 at 17:45 #80001 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
To quote the wiki (http://www.SimSig.co.uk/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=usertrack:ssrun:func:f4:general): "Version - This can be set to any value by the timetable writer. Generally, 'Build' should be incremented for minor tweaks, 'Minor' for slightly larger changes, 'Major' for substantial changes. There is no set convention for this, the only requirement is that each version uploaded to the website has a higher number than the previous version." Looking at the actual timetable files themselves, the sim and sim version number are automatically stored there. Edit: Snap! Last edited: 20/01/2016 at 17:45 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| Looking for 4Q17 in 15-Oct-09 WTTs 20/01/2016 at 18:15 #80002 | |
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JamesN
1580 posts |
" said:As the others have already put - They do exactly what they say on the tin - major changes, minor changes, tiny revisions where you've saved it. We've, in the past, used Version 4.x.x to denote that the TT is now on the newer, XML-based .WTT format that came with the introduction of loader (SimSig version 4.x.x) as opposed to the original binary format. Sims developed and TTs written purely for loader have started from v1.x.x My personal philosophy would be - Major is a complete/significant re-write, new source material - a noticeably different timetable from that previously released. Minor is incremented every time I release a timetable, build numbers are purely incremental changes not for public consumption. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Lyn-Greenwood |
| Looking for 4Q17 in 15-Oct-09 WTTs 20/01/2016 at 18:21 #80003 | |
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Lyn-Greenwood
239 posts |
" said:To quote the wiki (http://www.SimSig.co.uk/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=usertrack:ssrun:func:f4:general):I don't fully understand what you mean by "... the sim and sim version are automatically stored there". Can you explain more fully, please? I know that the sim name and the Loader (not the sim) version no. are stored within the timetable XML data so that the Loader knows the timetable is for the sim being run, otherwise it won't include it in the list of available timetables when the sim is first loaded. Is this what you really meant? Lyn Log in to reply |
| Looking for 4Q17 in 15-Oct-09 WTTs 20/01/2016 at 19:54 #80009 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:I don't fully understand what you mean by "... the sim and sim version are automatically stored there". Can you explain more fully, please? I know that the sim name and the Loader (not the sim) version no. are stored within the timetable XML dataIt was the XML data I meant. It does indeed seem it is the Loader version - in retrospect, assuming that the Coventry sim data was on version 4-point-something was a bit far fetched! It does then seem that the sim version isn't stored anywhere unless you do so yourself. Log in to reply |
| Looking for 4Q17 in 15-Oct-09 WTTs 20/01/2016 at 20:15 #80010 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
As the author of several of the said TT's, I can confirm, like James has already said, that 4Q17 is a Thursday only train. Therefore it should NOT be appearing in the early hours of the morning. There are some of the early timetables that are incorrect, however, Coventry IS correct. It should only appear in sims in evening, ie after 2200. This means the only bit of the schedule that is relevant is from 2200 at Crewe to Birmingham New Street at 24:00 (or possibly Leamington at 25:15) Noisynoel Log in to reply The following user said thank you: DriverCurran |