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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath

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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 19:46 #80220
jb108822
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I've had a go with Brighton, and I'm liking it. It's busy to do just on my own, but I don't mind too much. I've encountered an issue with joining trains at Haywards Heath, however, and quite early on in the timetable. 1B02 and 1F78 have joined fine in Platform 4, but 1H80 and 1B04 haven't in Platform 3. I can get 1H80 into the platform completely fine, and can set the route for 1B04 to go behind it as it should, but 1B04 just stops at signal 348. I've tried editing the timetable so that the trains go into Platform 4 instead, but I've encountered the exact same issue - train 1B04 still stops at signal 348. As far as I can tell, the only way around the problem is to allow the train to pass 348 at danger, but I was wondering if there are any other ways around it. I've had a look at the manual, but I can't seem to find anything helpful. I'm guessing that joining trains at Haywards Heath should do what 1B02 and 1F78 did - join up with no issues at all.
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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 22:39 #80221
BarryM
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I found no issues with 1B04 joining 1H80. You can see for your self by loading the attached save file (ssg).

Barry
[attachment=3612]Brighton2015Snapshot.ssg[/attachment]

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Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 22:58 #80222
Trainfan344
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OP, can you confirm which loader version you're on?
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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 23:07 #80223
jb108822
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" said:
OP, can you confirm which loader version you're on?

I'm on loader version 4.5.8.

Oh, and I can't actually open that screenshot for some reason.

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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 23:15 #80224
jc92
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2758 posts
I've tried to reproduce this but I can't. I thought you had to hold 340 at danger to get the permissive route, but turns out it releases even with 340 showing a proceed aspect.
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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 23:22 #80225
Steamer
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3050 posts
" said:
" said:
OP, can you confirm which loader version you're on?

I'm on loader version 4.5.8.

Oh, and I can't actually open that screenshot for some reason.
It's a saved game- if you save it in the folder with the rest of your Brighton saves, you can open from the Loader.

If you're still struggling, attach a save game with the trains not joining and we'll take a look at it.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 23:24 #80226
BarryM
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2093 posts
" said:
" said:
OP, can you confirm which loader version you're on?

I'm on loader version 4.5.8.

Oh, and I can't actually open that screenshot for some reason.
It is not a screen shot!

To see it, you need to copy the file to your Brighton's Simulation folder. Open the Simsig Loader, click on "Load a previously saved simulation". Choose "Brighton". Select file "Brighton2015Snapshot.ssg". Click "Start" button. You should see trains in motion!

Barry

EDIT Steamer was one jump ahead of me!

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Last edited: 29/01/2016 at 23:25 by BarryM
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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 23:32 #80227
jb108822
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17 posts
" said:
I've tried to reproduce this but I can't. I thought you had to hold 340 at danger to get the permissive route, but turns out it releases even with 340 showing a proceed aspect.

I've held 340 at danger for this join, and it's worked - 1B04 has gone past 348 showing a shunt aspect, and is now joining with 1H80. Strange that I didn't have to do it with the earlier join in Platform 4, but I did for this one.

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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 23:42 #80229
Steamer
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3050 posts
" said:
" said:
I've tried to reproduce this but I can't. I thought you had to hold 340 at danger to get the permissive route, but turns out it releases even with 340 showing a proceed aspect.

I've held 340 at danger for this join, and it's worked - 1B04 has gone past 348 showing a shunt aspect, and is now joining with 1H80. Strange that I didn't have to do it with the earlier join in Platform 4, but I did for this one.
How long did you wait for the shunt signal to clear? It does take about 50 seconds from when the track circuit approaching 348 is occupied.

Incidentally, you are required to hold 338 at danger when joining in Platform 4. It's impossible to set a call-on from 348 if a route is set from 338. This is the case at all stations, and is known as Huddersfield Control. Haywards Heath Platform 3 is very unusual in that the exit signal (340) is an automatic, and a call on can be set without it being at danger.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 23:45 #80231
headshot119
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3372 posts
" said:
" said:
" said:
I've tried to reproduce this but I can't. I thought you had to hold 340 at danger to get the permissive route, but turns out it releases even with 340 showing a proceed aspect.

I've held 340 at danger for this join, and it's worked - 1B04 has gone past 348 showing a shunt aspect, and is now joining with 1H80. Strange that I didn't have to do it with the earlier join in Platform 4, but I did for this one.
How long did you wait for the shunt signal to clear? It does take about 50 seconds from when the track circuit approaching 348 is occupied.

Incidentally, you are required to hold 338 at danger when joining in Platform 4. It's impossible to set a call-on from 348 if a route is set from 338. This is the case at all stations, and is known as Huddersfield Control. Haywards Heath Platform 3 is very unusual in that the exit signal (340) is an automatic, and a call on can be set without it being at danger.
As with most things signaling related, there's always exceptions to the rule, not everywhere is fitted with Huddersfield control.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 23:46 #80232
jb108822
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17 posts
" said:
" said:
" said:
I've tried to reproduce this but I can't. I thought you had to hold 340 at danger to get the permissive route, but turns out it releases even with 340 showing a proceed aspect.

I've held 340 at danger for this join, and it's worked - 1B04 has gone past 348 showing a shunt aspect, and is now joining with 1H80. Strange that I didn't have to do it with the earlier join in Platform 4, but I did for this one.
How long did you wait for the shunt signal to clear? It does take about 50 seconds from when the track circuit approaching 348 is occupied.

Incidentally, you are required to hold 338 at danger when joining in Platform 4. It's impossible to set a call-on from 348 if a route is set from 338. This is the case at all stations, and is known as Huddersfield Control. Haywards Heath Platform 3 is very unusual in that the exit signal (340) is an automatic, and a call on can be set without it being at danger.

I believe it was something like 50 seconds. Advice noted for future joins. Thanks very much.

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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 23:50 #80233
Hooverman
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300 posts
" said:
I've tried to reproduce this but I can't. I thought you had to hold 340 at danger to get the permissive route, but turns out it releases even with 340 showing a proceed aspect.
Probably until just recently we were allowed to work Haywards Heath that way in real life (starters off) by the SBIs and now the new SBIs say it's prohibited but they forget that T340 is an auto, so we must due for yet another reissue. The sim I believe reflected real life and how it was worked at the time that the data was gathered.

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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 29/01/2016 at 23:52 #80234
headshot119
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3372 posts
" said:
" said:
I've tried to reproduce this but I can't. I thought you had to hold 340 at danger to get the permissive route, but turns out it releases even with 340 showing a proceed aspect.
Probably until just recently we were allowed to work Haywards Heath that way in real life (starters off) by the SBIs and now the new SBIs say it's prohibited but they forget that T340 is an auto, so we must due for yet another reissue. The sim I believe reflected real life and how it was worked at the time that the data was gathered.
Can you not just hold 340 at danger on the replacement switch? Or let me guess it's not a proved replacement switch so doesn't count?

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 30/01/2016 at 00:01 #80235
Steamer
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3050 posts
" said:

I believe it was something like 50 seconds. Advice noted for future joins. Thanks very much. :)
That kind of approach control is very common- the signal will clear itself after sufficient time has elapsed for the train to slow down. You're only in trouble when the train rings in from the signal- if that much time has passed something else needs to happen before it will clear.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Brighton December 2015 - joining issue at Haywards Heath 30/01/2016 at 00:11 #80236
Hooverman
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300 posts
" said:
" said:
" said:
I've tried to reproduce this but I can't. I thought you had to hold 340 at danger to get the permissive route, but turns out it releases even with 340 showing a proceed aspect.
Probably until just recently we were allowed to work Haywards Heath that way in real life (starters off) by the SBIs and now the new SBIs say it's prohibited but they forget that T340 is an auto, so we must due for yet another reissue. The sim I believe reflected real life and how it was worked at the time that the data was gathered.
Can you not just hold 340 at danger on the replacement switch? Or let me guess it's not a proved replacement switch so doesn't count?
That's correct T340 is not proved, infact no auto signals at TBASC on the original panels 1A to 6 were proved excepte T641 & T644 at Spatham Lane AHBs and T645 & T646 at Plumpton. Since panel 7 was commissioned and the various mods with various re-signalling projects the list of proved autos have increased in recent years.

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