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| The model thing (signalling) 13/03/2016 at 20:12 #81165 | |
sorabain
72 posts |
Hi, I first got into SimSig after reading an article in a model railway magazine criticizing model signalling in general, and decided I should know more about it before embarking on my next model railway project. After searching around I found SimSig and got hooked, then nothing less than something IECC-esque would do for my next model railway. It's taken me quite a while, but i'm almost done with the software control. It's almost certainly not implemented anything like the real thing (and I expect not SimSig either), but hopefully is close enough for modelling purposes. It's written in java, with the control being object-oriented. I expect the real thing is more like a state machine with numerous firing rules, which I may well end up moving mine to at some point, although the object-oriented nature has allowed me to implement certain commonly occuring functionality once rather than needing to write & prove a state machine for each instance of it. The model railway electronics is digitrax/loconet, mostly out of the box. I reverse-engineered the PC control interface and implemented the messaging from scratch (binary protocol programming is my day job). Below is a short video below showing some of the signalling. I finished the route-setting, signal stepping and train-operated route release last week and this was a small test of it. I thought some of you might be interested. Note I can only realistically test light locos at the moment as I haven't added resistive wheelsets to any of my consists yet, which is required for the train detection (track circuits) to work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOolt0sMH8o The model is a "what if" based in the Tamworth area, where the suburb of Kettlebrook grew to dominate. In order to provide operational interest (trains stopping and starting at signals) i've made the high-level birmingham-derby lines intersect with the WCML itself, which would no doubt create quite a bottleneck on its own, but to make things worse i've included a yard (roughly based on Peterborough layout, where I grew up), and to make it worse still the loco stabling/depot is across the WCML from the yard (a kludge because that seemed the best place for it on the model). In the model the 56 is coming in from Derby and heading off down the slow line towards Rugby The model itself is only a small section (top left in the video) of the area simulated. The idea is that i'll add some off-model railway control to run things to a timetable so that the whole control system feels real and makes suspension of disbelief a bit easier when although the same 86 & coaches has come around before, this time it's a different headcode and you can still see the previous iteration ticking off the map so it feels like a genuinely different train. I've not yet started this aspect of the software yet, the plan is that it'll "catch" a model leaving the layout and continue to speed it on its way, and ditto i'll have to be on the ball and catch trains coming in from the software. If i drop the ball the train will take a suspiciously long time to progress through the track circuit before the first in the model. I've got three more signals to add on the model itself. Will post some multi-train videos on various routes when that's done. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: simonslhui, belly buster, simmybear, Temple Meads, kaiwhara, Hooverman, tjfrancis, headshot119, Peter Bennet, 03piggs, Trainfan344 |
| The model thing (signalling) 13/03/2016 at 22:13 #81168 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
It looks fantastic. I too am using loconet to control my model railway (what I've managed to build of it anyway). Alas I'm not as clever as you and couldn't make my own signalling system so I had to use some software that already existed. (JMRI) If you fancy a read and a look at my workstation screens take a look here. FF Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 13/03/2016 at 23:59 #81169 | |
madaboutrains
308 posts |
Does it work like an axle counter would? Would be nice to see a tutorial to see how its made.
RIP Feltham Panel 1 Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 14/03/2016 at 00:35 #81170 | |
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Roadrunner
111 posts |
Very impressive signalling and model, Sorabain.
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| The model thing (signalling) 14/03/2016 at 07:26 #81172 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Quote:Does it work like an axle counter would? Would be nice to see a tutorial to see how its made.From Soranains comment about resistive wheels he'll be using stand train detection which is more akin to track circuits. You basically have a current sensor on each section of track. The trouble is it only senses current if the vehicle has a motor or lights so you need to add resistors to all other vehicles so that they're detected by the signalling system. Last edited: 14/03/2016 at 07:41 by Firefly Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 14/03/2016 at 07:45 #81173 | |
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sorabain
72 posts |
" said:It looks fantastic. I too am using loconet to control my model railway (what I've managed to build of it anyway). Alas I'm not as clever as you and couldn't make my own signalling system so I had to use some software that already existed. (JMRI)Thanks for this, a very interesting read and learned a few things (e.g. I didn't know that some overlaps do not get automatically released, such as in your swinging overlap example). I had a look at JMRI and did not realise it could be made to look so much like an IECC, I obviously didn't look hard enough! Looks like the interlocking is very featureful too (i've not yet done approach control or swinging overlaps) Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 14/03/2016 at 07:51 #81174 | |
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sorabain
72 posts |
" said:Quote:Yeah i'm using one of these http://www.digitrax.com/products/detection-signaling/bdl168/Does it work like an axle counter would? Would be nice to see a tutorial to see how its made.From Soranains comment about resistive wheels he'll be using stand train detection which is more akin to track circuits. You basically have a current sensor on each section of track. The trouble is it only senses current if the vehicle has a motor or lights so you need to add resistors to all other vehicles so that they're detected by the signalling system. I believe it works by measuring voltage drop (other available systems measure current flow directly). I was a bit wary about using it as there were a fair few reports of spurious indications so ended up adding some software stability in case the device would "flicker" the track circuits (the software will not change state unless that state has persisted for some time), but so far that software has never kicked in and it's been 100% reliable Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 14/03/2016 at 10:27 #81175 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Quote:I didn't know that some overlaps do not get automatically released, such as in your swinging overlap exampleYes overlap releasing costs money either in terms of timer relays and additional relay contacts in a relay interlocking or data programming, and interlocking processing power in CBI's. In both cases it takes additional designing and testing man hours so it's only done where needed. Quote: I had a look at JMRI and did not realise it could be made to look so much like an IECC, I obviously didn't look hard enough!Many don't, in fact I'd dismissed it at first for the same reason. Luckily I stumbled back across it. I had to make all of my own icon files in order for it to look like an IECC.  Quote: Looks like the interlocking is very featureful tooAlthough JMRI does offer some simple interlocking I did all of the interlocking myself using logical statements. It was the only way that I could ensure prototypical operation. As an example:  The above is the Aspect Control Logix for 100B Route. So it requires: 100B Route to be set 100 Button Pull not set (Entrance Button has not been pulled to cancel the route) 100 SSU active (This is the signal stick feature that stops the signal re-clearing for a second train, and must be active to allow a proceed aspect) 500 Points Controlled and Detected Normal ZC track circuit clear If all of those conditions are true it will carry out the following: Sets ALR100 inactive (To approach lock the signal) Sets TISPB100 inactive (This is train in section proving that releases the approach locking once the train has passed the signal. It's required active to release the approach locking so we must make it inactive before we allow our signal to clear) Sets ACD100B to active. (this in turn will cause the signal to change aspect although this is achieved in a different logix conditional) If the statement becomes false (for example ZC goes occupied, 500 point detection is lost or the route is cancelled) The ACD100B is set to inactive The Signal Head commanded to display Red You can create more complex statements using OR / AND and nested brackets. FF Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 14/03/2016 at 10:29 by Firefly Log in to reply The following users said thank you: altern8or, sorabain |
| The model thing (signalling) 26/02/2017 at 20:25 #93373 | |
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sorabain
72 posts |
Took another video today. Hope noone minds me leaving this here. It's slow progress, currently grinding out the resistive wheelsets and doing a bit of scenery here and there to keep me sane. Hundreds of axles to go... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-zchFiwbII&t=2s Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Trainfan344, postal, andyb0607, WesternChampion, RainbowNines |
| The model thing (signalling) 16/03/2017 at 19:57 #93682 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
It looks fantastic. Thanks of the video. FF Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 17/03/2017 at 09:01 #93686 | |
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RainbowNines
272 posts |
sorabain in post 93373 said:Took another video today. Hope noone minds me leaving this here. It's slow progress, currently grinding out the resistive wheelsets and doing a bit of scenery here and there to keep me sane. Hundreds of axles to go...Cor what's not to like? Fantastic scenery, great models, supremely intelligent signalling. Magic! Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 17/03/2017 at 11:24 #93689 | |
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CTD Sig
29 posts |
We are both very alike! I live around Peterborough and know the station well! I'm also a railway modeller! I was looking a TrainTech 00 Sensor signals, but the wire is only 'for show'- they work on timer. Do you know any real block working signals? Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 17/03/2017 at 20:17 #93694 | |
MJD
149 posts |
I was under the impression that they were proper auto? http://prntscr.com/el8uxt Mike. Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 18/03/2017 at 02:55 #93705 | |
rfw
139 posts |
TrainTech sensor signals will work on a timer for the signal with no further signals in advance. But when linked (using the chaining wire) the signal in the rear of the current signal will clear when the current tells it to. From a brief look at the material on youtube , website + DCPexpress shop & brochure. The senor signal system (Layout Link) is what you're looking for. So that's the: SS1 - SS5 (home & distant colour lights) SS1R - SS5R ("" W/ Right feather) SS1L - SS5L ("" W/ Left feather) SS1T - SS5T ("" W/ Theatre*) *Theatre can only show one number/letter (cannot switch from one to another) SC300 (Dapol semaphore signal controller for the sensor signal system) ST1 (Track sensor / headless signal) - could be used through fiddle yard / tunnels to avoid the signal most in advance acting on a timer It looks like a fantastic system, I'd like to see a module to control 3rd party signals on the layout link system. But I'm too poor to afford a model railway, besides where would I put it *sighs* The train now standing on platform 2, should be on the rails Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 26/08/2017 at 03:25 #101245 | |
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altern8or
7 posts |
Looks good, however, I cannot seem to be able to see the attached pictures, anyone have back-up somewhere or am I doing something wrong pleaseeeeeeee? Cheers, Robert Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 26/08/2017 at 08:29 #101246 | |
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JamesN
1575 posts |
altern8or in post 101245 said:Looks good, however, I cannot seem to be able to see the attached pictures, anyone have back-up somewhere or am I doing something wrong pleaseeeeeeee?Are you on the mobile version of the site? Images/Attachments do not show on the mobile site (by design). Log in to reply |
| The model thing (signalling) 26/08/2017 at 12:53 #101249 | |
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MarkC
1089 posts |
JamesN in post 101246 said:altern8or in post 101245 said:I cannot get the pictures either, and I am not using the mobile site.Looks good, however, I cannot seem to be able to see the attached pictures, anyone have back-up somewhere or am I doing something wrong pleaseeeeeeee?Are you on the mobile version of the site? I Belive the files are missing, which was quite common for a number of files during the website upgrade at the end of last year/early this year. Log in to reply |