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Gloucester timetabling conundrums

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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 05/08/2016 at 16:58 #83975
Finger
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" said:
" said:
If you feel so inclined, you could look into why 1E61--MX and 5B39--MX won't join. I think it has something to do with the fact that the former is too long for Platform 2 so the rear of the train is on Platform 1. The sim data for the length of Platform 2 is wrong so the platform is shorter than in real life. Do you think I could get round it by shortening 1E61--MX so that it all fits onto Platform 2?
No, it's because you've got subsequent activities (ie. after the join) with both trains. The correct way would be for one train to join, cease to exist and all further activities should be placed with the other train. The former train should have nothing further in the timetable.

I was thinking the extra activities were benign, but apparently they're not. When I deleted the DR:GW... from 5B39's timetable, it immediately went from "waiting for joining train" to "joining trains". It is unlikely the length of platform 2 makes any difference, because I had the 1E in platform 1 fully, with the rear end clearly overhanging and despite that, the train joined. You should be worried about the front end if anything.
Just an update on that: I have tried it again and found out 5B39 was really a little reluctant to join 1E61 when it arrived in P2 - assuming it had not yet arrived. Moving 1E61's stopping place further east (that is into P1) with stopping position Far:50 fixed that, although it might not be necessary when the timetable is finished (the sim should calculate the stopping point correctly wrt further joins and divides, but it may make a mistake). The trains did join after 5B39's timetable was ticked anyway.

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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 05/08/2016 at 18:59 #83978
WesternChampion
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Thanks for all your help with this.

I've deleted the erroneous activity after the join for 5B39 and it now joins the west end of 1E61 no problem.

I can't remember whether the file I uploaded had 1E61 at the correct length or not but I decided to put it back to its correct length having shortened it thinking that the overhang into P1 was the reason for the failed join with 5B39. Now I can't get the train engine, 0E61, back on the east end of the train having left some vans in the Horse Box siding. The train list is quite correctly showing 0E61 stopped at Gloucester (Platform 1) and 1E61 stopped at Gloucester (Platform 2), both waiting for each other to turn up.

I'm going to try shortening 1E61 again and see if that helps.

Chris

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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 05/08/2016 at 19:38 #83979
postal
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" said:
Thanks for all your help with this.

I've deleted the erroneous activity after the join for 5B39 and it now joins the west end of 1E61 no problem.

I can't remember whether the file I uploaded had 1E61 at the correct length or not but I decided to put it back to its correct length having shortened it thinking that the overhang into P1 was the reason for the failed join with 5B39. Now I can't get the train engine, 0E61, back on the east end of the train having left some vans in the Horse Box siding. The train list is quite correctly showing 0E61 stopped at Gloucester (Platform 1) and 1E61 stopped at Gloucester (Platform 2), both waiting for each other to turn up.

I'm going to try shortening 1E61 again and see if that helps.

Chris
Have you tried altering the stopping position of 0E61 (say to FX or even FX -y metres)?

"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." - Malcolm X (19/05/1925 – 21/02/1965) American Muslim minister and human rights activist.
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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 08/08/2016 at 12:41 #83999
WesternChampion
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" said:
Have you tried altering the stopping position of 0E61 (say to FX or even FX -y metres)?
Did you mean 1E61, i.e. the incoming main train, rather than the light engine?

The problem with the train stopping beyond the end of Platform 2 is that there is a detachment and then attachment made to the west end of the train and I'm concerned about it either fouling the Up Main for the run round or causing the join at that end to not be on Platform 2.

I'll have a go with FX when I get a chance. Bit of a busy week, this week.

Chris

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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 08/08/2016 at 14:44 #84000
Finger
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" said:
" said:
Have you tried altering the stopping position of 0E61 (say to FX or even FX -y metres)?
Did you mean 1E61, i.e. the incoming main train, rather than the light engine?

The problem with the train stopping beyond the end of Platform 2 is that there is a detachment and then attachment made to the west end of the train and I'm concerned about it either fouling the Up Main for the run round or causing the join at that end to not be on Platform 2.

I'll have a go with FX when I get a chance. Bit of a busy week, this week.

No I'm pretty sure postal meant the loco. The idea is that your problem is caused by the loco stopping too early, and to fix that, you'll tell the driver to go all the way until he bumps into the carriages and joins. Also, the driver could have stopped in P1 merely because the signal leading to P2 was at danger. Gloucester is peculiar in this regard, so when you admit a train into P1 and it stops, the driver will leave it at that and will not proceed to P2 even if that's his timetabled position.

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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 08/08/2016 at 15:31 #84001
WesternChampion
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" said:
No I'm pretty sure postal meant the loco. The idea is that your problem is caused by the loco stopping too early, and to fix that, you'll tell the driver to go all the way until he bumps into the carriages and joins. Also, the driver could have stopped in P1 merely because the signal leading to P2 was at danger. Gloucester is peculiar in this regard, so when you admit a train into P1 and it stops, the driver will leave it at that and will not proceed to P2 even if that's his timetabled position.
Yes, I take both your points. With 1E61 at its original length, the rear of the train was in Platform 1, so 0E61 could not physically be signalled into Platform 2 from that end. When I reduced the length, it ran into P2 and coupled up ok. I used the position light signal to get the loco into P2, so no problem with it stopping at the wrong platform. The problem is that with 1E61 at its prototypically correct length, it is too long for P2, partly because the sim data is wrong on the length of the platform.

Chris

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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 08/08/2016 at 17:03 #84002
GeoffM
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" said:
with 1E61 at its prototypically correct length, it is too long for P2, partly because the sim data is wrong on the length of the platform.
How long is the train, and how long did you expect the platform to be?

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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 08/08/2016 at 18:48 #84003
WesternChampion
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" said:
How long is the train, and how long did you expect the platform to be?
The train is 223 metres long. According to page 240 of the Timetable Planning Rules for Western and Wales, the length between Signals 58 and 133 is 248 metres. My train also occupies the track section between Signal 133 and Signal 54.

See this earlier thread.

Last edited: 08/08/2016 at 18:49 by WesternChampion
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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 08/08/2016 at 21:39 #84004
GeoffM
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Sim data has 220m so yes a little short. Don't forget trains stop short of signals though. Gloucester is an old exe and I can't remember the details for back then but probably something in the region of 20-30m before the signal which, at its upper extremities, would still cause an overhang even with the correct platform length. These days we can alter that but not an old exe like Gloucester. Hopefully Kurt will re-release Gloucester in Loader format.
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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 09/08/2016 at 10:54 #84005
Chrisrail
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Hopefully Kurt will re-release Gloucester in Loader format. !!!!!!!
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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 02/09/2016 at 16:05 #84460
WesternChampion
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Ok, I have a rule for a train running via Worcester:
Train: 1E61-2
Rule: Must not depart from Z until X minutes after Y leaves the area
Time X (mins): 20
Train Y: 1E61-1
Location Z: Droitwich Spa

In testing, 1E61-1 has been delayed by a signal failure at Eckington, so has not yet left the area, as planned at Norton Junction. However, 1E61-2 has entered at Droitwich on time.

Have I done something wrong?

Chris

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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 02/09/2016 at 16:18 #84461
Sacro
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Have I done something wrong?
Probably need to use "Must appear" rather than "Must not depart"

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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 02/09/2016 at 16:25 #84462
WesternChampion
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" said:
Probably need to use "Must appear" rather than "Must not depart"
Thank you.

Does that mean that part 2 will always appear exactly 20 minutes after part 1 leaves?

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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 02/09/2016 at 16:30 #84463
JamesN
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" said:
" said:
Probably need to use "Must appear" rather than "Must not depart"
Thank you.

Does that mean that part 2 will always appear exactly 20 minutes after part 1 leaves?
At least 20 minutes after, it can be further delayed as per any other entry.

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Gloucester timetabling conundrums 02/09/2016 at 16:32 #84464
WesternChampion
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Brilliant, thank you.

I have some rules editing to do...

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