Three-state banner repeaters

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Three-state banner repeaters 30/05/2017 at 11:33 #95476
Steamer
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Online 		I've noticed a few of these are being installed on my local line; some as direct replacements for existing banners, and some are completely new.

Are three-state banners now provided as standard, or can two-state ones be provided if there's no benefit to the third state?
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Three-state banner repeaters 30/05/2017 at 11:36 #95477
headshot119
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4869 posts 		Can't say for certain what the case is, but all the new installations I've seen recently have had tri-state.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Three-state banner repeaters 30/05/2017 at 11:41 #95478
Splodge
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Online 		Some have recently been replaced on the line between Manchester and Stoke but haven't been replaced with tri-state (even though they are replacing LED style ones of fairly recent vintage!).

In terms of new installations, they have been installed in the upgraded area around Manchester Oxford Road, which seems to point to the fact they are becoming the standard, simply as there is no capacity boost to be gained - speed is so low, and with most trains stopping at Oxford Road and Piccadilly it offers no benefit over a two-state repeater.
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Three-state banner repeaters 30/05/2017 at 14:58 #95484
Hap
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986 posts 		recent signalling upgrades up here in scotland have had either banner repeaters replaced with tri-state ones, and all the new ones that have been installed are tri-state,

Craig
How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue
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Three-state banner repeaters 30/05/2017 at 21:57 #95502
Trainfan344
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262 posts 		The banner repeater for Ely bound trains at Cambridge North is a tri-state repeater.
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Three-state banner repeaters 31/05/2017 at 13:22 #95514
Ltbuckler
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9 posts 		The current Network Rail standard states the following in regards to the provision of banner repeaters;

Quote:
Banner repeaters may be used to fulfil one or more of four functions:-
a) To provide early indication that a signal being approached at danger has cleared or remains at danger,
b) To repeat the aspect of a platform starting signal to the train driver and station despatch staff,
c) To provide early indication of whether a first cautionary signal is displaying a clear or cautionary aspect,
d) To provide a visual marker that a signal is about to become visible.

For functions a) and b) above, a two state banner should be provided unless other banners in the area are three state.
Where the repeater is primarily for the benefit of train despatch staff, an ‘OFF’ indicator is the preferred device.
For function c) above, where it is not possible to provide sufficient reading time for a line speed approach to a signal then a three state banner should be provided unless this would lead to driver confusion.
Basically, if the reason for the banner is sighting issues (and 9/10 times it is) then a tri-state is recommended.
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Three-state banner repeaters 31/05/2017 at 14:07 #95515
Hap
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986 posts 		Interesting about the Off indicator bit.

At Glasgow Central Platform 9. There is an intermediate signal (GG5709) then the platform starting signal (GG5609).
Both are completely out of sight as the platform is curved and the train is at the battery end.

The OFF indicator is for the starting signal (GG5609) and the BR (GG5709 BR) is for the intermediate signal (GG5709).

Also attached is where there has been recent upgrades to signalling and new BR placed because of poor sighting.

The picture showing the Uddingston area has two new Three stage banner repeaters on the UM. one for up trains, and one for down trains located on the UM but obviously facing the other way.

The Signals that these are associated with are on a sharp bend, and Uddingston Junction can have a bit of a hold up when things are running late. Having the 3 state system in place for the Down trains is a perfect idea as they would still be slowing down around the corner until they seen the signal at Uddingston. Even if it just saves a minute journey time for trains coming from the DM, it means there will be less of a bottle neck at Newton West Junction and Rutherglen Junctions.

The thrid picture shows the new 3 state BR on the Up Holytown after Uddingston. The signal itself has been moved back a few yards. and coming from uddingston, the BR is on a bend. The signal itself protects Viewpark sidings. and is also that last signal associated with GMN 182 which is a approach control signal. The cement train can be late and you can crawl up the hill to GMN 186 sometimes. just gives us that extra bit more confidence that the signal is showing green to get a good run at the bottom of the hill.
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How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue
Last edited: 31/05/2017 at 14:11 by Hap
Reason: Screenshot edit
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Three-state banner repeaters 31/05/2017 at 14:08 #95516
Peter Bennet
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5362 posts 		What are the three states?

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Three-state banner repeaters 31/05/2017 at 14:08 #95517
Meld
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1098 posts
Online 		Nothing new really, Evesham Road 1972

http://www.roscalen.com/signals/WestMids/7208/0096.jpg

Are there any left ???
Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
Last edited: 31/05/2017 at 14:09 by Meld
Reason: None given
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Three-state banner repeaters 31/05/2017 at 14:38 #95518
headshot119
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4869 posts 		Peter Bennet in post 95516 said:
What are the three states?

Peter
On - horizontal bar white background
Off - diagonal bar white background (signal off)
Off green - diagonal bar green background (signal off and at green)
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Three-state banner repeaters 31/05/2017 at 18:18 #95527
GW43125
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495 posts 		Steamer in post 95476 said:

Are three-state banners now provided as standard, or can two-state ones be provided if there's no benefit to the third state?
A couple of months ago a banner was provided on the up platform at Chertsey, to coincide with the platform extension which saw the signal moved approximately 150m towards London, round a corner. However, as the speed limit through the platforms is only 20mph, a three-state was not provided.
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