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Deutsche Bahn 01/06/2017 at 14:05 #95549
Giantray
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It would nice and interesting to see Simsig applied to one of Germany's many busy networks, Frankfurt, Duesseldorf, Cologne etc
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Deutsche Bahn 01/06/2017 at 17:32 #95554
123
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But this is pretty unlikely, mainly due to the British system beeing a bit diffrent to the German.
There are some simulations out there for the German market, varieing in price and detail.
Free, but with only a rough simulation: This one would spring to mind
A bit more expensive, but with a relativley detailed simulation of a German NX: is Signalsoft.

Of course, some non-NR sims are already out there (mainly the Drain, Victoria Line and Chigago L), but I don't think that the developers would like to spend their time on getting into the German system.

Last edited: 01/06/2017 at 17:35 by 123
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Deutsche Bahn 07/06/2017 at 01:04 #95710
DaveHarries
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Interesting thought. Cologne, if it were possible to build, would make a large sim. Cologne is also one of my favourite cities in Europe. Amsterdam would be fun also.

On the matter of German simulations there is another one with several layouts making up the whole of Cologne and that is Stellwerksim whose Cologne layouts can eb looked at here: http://www.stellwerksim.de/anlagen.php#region=16

Dave

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Deutsche Bahn 29/06/2017 at 20:56 #96063
Phil-jmw
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Dave,

If you're looking for accurate German sims take a look at Signalsoft. They have a wealth of sims for sale, covering boxes both large and small, including Cologne Hbf. The box only has a control area of around a couple of miles but it is not for the faint hearted! If you don't understand how German panels work I wouldn't make Cologne your first purchase.

Signalsoft also have three Dutch sims for sale replicating the former GRS panels at Arnhem, Hengelo and Amsterdam, with turn-and-push buttons and electro-mechanical point indicators, but they are quite old and need updating as they are a little bit buggy. They are interesting to work all the same, not least because the panels simulated do not have the luxury of train describers.


Regards,

Phil.

Last edited: 29/06/2017 at 20:57 by Phil-jmw
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Deutsche Bahn 30/06/2017 at 14:27 #96078
kbarber
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Phil-jmw in post 96063 said:
Dave,

If you're looking for accurate German sims take a look at Signalsoft. They have a wealth of sims for sale, covering boxes both large and small, including Cologne Hbf. The box only has a control area of around a couple of miles but it is not for the faint hearted! If you don't understand how German panels work I wouldn't make Cologne your first purchase.

Signalsoft also have three Dutch sims for sale replicating the former GRS panels at Arnhem, Hengelo and Amsterdam, with turn-and-push buttons and electro-mechanical point indicators, but they are quite old and need updating as they are a little bit buggy. They are interesting to work all the same, not least because the panels simulated do not have the luxury of train describers.


Regards,

Phil.

Used to be a few GRS turn-push panels over here as well, might make interesting historic sims. There was a run of three at Mile End, Bow Junction and Stratford, installed 1949 in connection with the Shenfield electrification. Mile End closed fairly early on, replaced by a ground frame released by Bow Junction by the time I knew it (1977/8). Potters Bar had one with separate indication panel and the buttons mounted in the centre of the entrance switches to give a more compact layout. I believe Faversham had one commissioned at the back end of the '50s icw Kent Coast electrification phase 1, and Barking had one commissioned as late as 1961 icw LTS electrification (shown being installed & tested in the BTF film Points and Aspects). I believe there were a few in Scotland as well, all around Glasgow (and again provided icw electrification projects).

They were a little different to the Dutch version, with auto working ('fleeting' ) not possible via the entrance switches (the LNER and ER ones had groups of signals that would run auto provided all routes through the group were called). The electromechanical points indicators were fascinating to watch (and hear). Again they were different to the Dutch version in which the indicators went straight to the new position as soon as a route was called, with locking confirmed by a light under the toe of the indicator. In the UK version, the indicator would move to the middle position as soon as the points were called away from where they lay and remain there until detection was obtained, at which point they would complete their travel.

The GE panels had describers using local codes (a letter or two for class of train, two letters for destination/origin, additional diamond for electric traction) which were back-projected on screens above the panel. There was a screen for each running line, a line of the screen for each signal (plus 1st, 2nd and 3rd approaching and last sent), and the descriptions moved from bottom to top as the train progressed through the area, jumping from one screen to another if the train was directed to another line.

Amazing to see what was, effectively, a fully-featured modern power box dating back to 1949 (it would've been about 1942 had there not been a little kerfuffle going on). The only thing they didn't have was safety-critical multiplex systems that would have allowed control of a large area from one place.

Last edited: 30/06/2017 at 14:29 by kbarber
Reason: eliminate accidental smiley

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Deutsche Bahn 30/06/2017 at 14:41 #96079
Andrew G
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The GRS panels in Scotland were at Dumbarton and Hyndland - commissioned as part of the Glasgow North Electrification (Blue Train) scheme - as well as one at Millerhill.

Dumbarton and Hyndland had Alpha Train Describers mounted above the panels - for example - BEDS - Class B Electric to Dalmuir via Singer.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/llangollen_signalman/35242545100/in/dateposted/

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Deutsche Bahn 03/08/2017 at 21:50 #97875
pchris
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Another vendor for simulations from Germany (plus some from Austria and Switzerland) is ESTWsim. These simulations of electronic interlocking systems are as realistic as possible. I do have a few of them.
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Deutsche Bahn 04/08/2017 at 08:30 #97884
Jan
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Although from what I remember playing one of the demos some while ago, unlike Simsig or the Signalsoft simulations ESTWsim doesn't really have a system for timetabled activities, so you have to manually operate all next train workings, divides, joins etc.
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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Deutsche Bahn 04/08/2017 at 18:44 #97891
broodje
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Phil, does this mean you actualy understand how the german signal boxes work? I had no problem with the dutch signalsoft boxes (but then again, I am dutch) but I fail to understand the way the germans work their boxes and what I should do. The manuals are sparse at best.
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Deutsche Bahn 04/08/2017 at 19:14 #97892
DaveHarries
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Only thing I can't woprk out on the sims provided by, for example, Stellwerksim, is how you are supposed to know where the track circuits end. Any ideas?

Dave

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Deutsche Bahn 04/08/2017 at 23:51 #97895
Re620
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DaveHarries in post 97892 said:
Only thing I can't woprk out on the sims provided by, for example, Stellwerksim, is how you are supposed to know where the track circuits end. Any ideas?

Dave
In Stellwerksim they end at the signal (no overlap).

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Deutsche Bahn 10/08/2017 at 01:28 #100951
Phil-jmw
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.
Last edited: 10/08/2017 at 02:56 by Phil-jmw
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Deutsche Bahn 10/08/2017 at 02:55 #100952
Phil-jmw
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broodje in post 97891 said:
Phil, does this mean you actualy understand how the german signal boxes work? I had no problem with the dutch signalsoft boxes (but then again, I am dutch) but I fail to understand the way the germans work their boxes and what I should do. The manuals are sparse at best.
Broodje, I only know what I know about how German signalboxes operate from working the Signalsoft simulations and learning from the advice I've received from more knowledgable people on the Signalsoft forum when I have had problems with sims and asked for assistance.

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Deutsche Bahn 10/08/2017 at 09:18 #100955
Andrew G
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broodje in post 97891 said:
Phil, does this mean you actualy understand how the german signal boxes work? I had no problem with the dutch signalsoft boxes (but then again, I am dutch) but I fail to understand the way the germans work their boxes and what I should do. The manuals are sparse at best.
I have found that their WIKI has a lot of information - although I accept there is quite a learning curve. If you persevere I think it is worth it.

https://railsignalling.org/signalwiki/index.php/Contents:English

Last edited: 10/08/2017 at 09:19 by Andrew G
Reason: Spelling

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Deutsche Bahn 10/08/2017 at 11:56 #100957
broodje
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I did in fact decide to try it after playing with their demos for some time. I've bought karlsrurhe and am impressed with the quality and options in the program. It was quiete dificult to understand what was going on to begin with however. In fact, i've got a route that will set but won't clear the signal for example and I have no idea why this is happening. Simsig, or rather the english boxes, are quite a lot simpler in that respect. The germans sure like buttons...
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Deutsche Bahn 11/08/2017 at 02:05 #100973
Phil-jmw
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broodje in post 100957 said:
I did in fact decide to try it after playing with their demos for some time. I've bought karlsrurhe and am impressed with the quality and options in the program. It was quiete dificult to understand what was going on to begin with however. In fact, i've got a route that will set but won't clear the signal for example and I have no idea why this is happening. Simsig, or rather the english boxes, are quite a lot simpler in that respect. The germans sure like buttons...
Karlsruhe is quite a challenging sim to work if you are just starting out with the German sims. Is the route you have set towards the sidings at the top? If so, you have to set the route in two halves. Read the Wiki very carefully and all will be revealed. If you have set a route towards the street for a train that is not formed of a tram the signal will never clear because only the trams are fitted with a transponder that allows a signal to clear towards the street.

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Deutsche Bahn 11/08/2017 at 23:30 #100999
KymriskaDraken
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Andrew G in post 100955 said:
broodje in post 97891 said:
Phil, does this mean you actualy understand how the german signal boxes work? I had no problem with the dutch signalsoft boxes (but then again, I am dutch) but I fail to understand the way the germans work their boxes and what I should do. The manuals are sparse at best.
I have found that their WIKI has a lot of information - although I accept there is quite a learning curve. If you persevere I think it is worth it.

https://railsignalling.org/signalwiki/index.php/Contents:English
I've bought three of their sims (Bonn, Köln and Braunschweig) and I agree that there is a bit of a learning curve. Some things are a little counter-intuitive compared with the British system and I have locked the job up more than once so far!


Kev

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Deutsche Bahn 12/08/2017 at 10:48 #101002
Danny252
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Having played around with Stellwerksim, I'm very impressed with their multiplayer setup. Their entire network runs trains all day, and users can "drop in" to any signalbox (sorry, Stellwerk!) of their choice, more or less seamlessly.

On the other hand, I really do wish their boxes had more Train Describers in - sometimes it's very hard to work out which train is which!

Last edited: 12/08/2017 at 10:49 by Danny252
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Deutsche Bahn 12/08/2017 at 12:16 #101006
broodje
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Phil-jmw in post 100973 said:

Karlsruhe is quite a challenging sim to work if you are just starting out with the German sims. Is the route you have set towards the sidings at the top? If so, you have to set the route in two halves. Read the Wiki very carefully and all will be revealed. If you have set a route towards the street for a train that is not formed of a tram the signal will never clear because only the trams are fitted with a transponder that allows a signal to clear towards the street.
I know of the routes from the dark grey to lighter grey area. These work the same as the routes in Cardiff routes via A,B,C,D,E or F. In this case it was a route from 351 to 129. It turned out to be the overlap from 008. I have a feeling the route should never have proven. Now the route was set but the signal did not turn green. Or maybe this is one of those little differences between the English and German practises. I find Karlsruhe a lot of fun, even though there is hardly any freight in the area there is plenty of shunting going on.

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Deutsche Bahn 14/08/2017 at 12:49 #101033
Phil-jmw
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broodje in post 101006 said:
Phil-jmw in post 100973 said:

Karlsruhe is quite a challenging sim to work if you are just starting out with the German sims. Is the route you have set towards the sidings at the top? If so, you have to set the route in two halves. Read the Wiki very carefully and all will be revealed. If you have set a route towards the street for a train that is not formed of a tram the signal will never clear because only the trams are fitted with a transponder that allows a signal to clear towards the street.
I know of the routes from the dark grey to lighter grey area. These work the same as the routes in Cardiff routes via A,B,C,D,E or F. In this case it was a route from 351 to 129. It turned out to be the overlap from 008. I have a feeling the route should never have proven. Now the route was set but the signal did not turn green. Or maybe this is one of those little differences between the English and German practises. I find Karlsruhe a lot of fun, even though there is hardly any freight in the area there is plenty of shunting going on.
I haven't run Karlsruhe for a couple of months so am a bit rusty on it, but yes there are plenty of shunt moves to make up for the lack of freight. Bonn and Braunschweig are fairly straightforward, but Koln and Koln 2012 will tie you in knots if you're not careful, especially when sending trains to and receiving trains from the depot (Bbf).

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Deutsche Bahn 14/08/2017 at 22:56 #101040
Re620
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Danny252 in post 101002 said:
On the other hand, I really do wish their boxes had more Train Describers in - sometimes it's very hard to work out which train is which!
Since the design of each Stellwerk depends on the creator you find some with a good number of describers and some were your in constant search of the trains.
The creators are usually rather active and you can leave a comment in the forum asking for more describers in said Stellwerk. Maybe when the creator has some time on his/her hands he/she will rethink the number provided and adjust were necessary.

Last edited: 14/08/2017 at 22:57 by Re620
Reason: spelling

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Deutsche Bahn 14/08/2017 at 23:59 #101042
broodje
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Are the describers not in the places where they are in real life? The dutch boxes have not got any simply because they didn't have it back in the days they were used. I can tell you that Amsterdam can get really confusing because of that ;).
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Deutsche Bahn 15/08/2017 at 09:56 #101043
Jan
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broodje in post 101042 said:
Are the describers not in the places where they are in real life? The dutch boxes have not got any simply because they didn't have it back in the days they were used. I can tell you that Amsterdam can get really confusing because of that ;).

I think he was referring to Stellwerksim there, not the Signalsoft sims. Stellwerksim is a little more simplified and the accuracy also depends on the respective authors - last time I checked, my local line e.g. had a number of additional block signals that don't actually exist in reality.

Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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