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Straddling the points???

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Straddling the points??? 27/07/2017 at 18:12 #97658
bugsy
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Oh dear, stuck again.

I’m playing Kings Cross 1955 (steam) Summer TT and have got a little problem.
5H06 has stopped at Drayton Park Platform 1, the engine has detached and become 0H07-1. 5H06 has waited for new engine 0H06 to arrive and when attached this train is due to depart for Finsbury Park Platform 6. This is all fine so far, except that now I don’t seem to be able to set the route from signal 363 on the up line to signal 373 on the down line towards Finsbury Park as the trains appear to straddle the points. I can’t understand why this is, because the combined length of 5H06, 0H06 and 0H07 is 90m and platform 1 is 124m long
Furthermore, 0H07-1 is now ready to depart, but is complaining that 5H06 is in front, but he’ll have to be patient. Would the solution be to reduce the length of 5H06 so that the points aren’t straddled and consequently allow me to set the route, or have I missed something obvious.
I have attached a saved game to assist. I can provide an earlier save if requested to do so.

Just a note to Steve to say thanks for producing this very interesting TT with lots of shunting, etc. Really enjoyable even though I have to use the pause button periodically!

Edit: I have sellected 'show track circuits breaks' in the Options menu and it appears that the small section of TC just before the platform isn't clearing.
I have read through previous Kings Cross posts and found one where someone said the they couldn't get 0H06 to join 5H06 and the soloution given was to alter the stopping point for 5H06 in the 'Train List' so that it stopped at the exact far end of the platform. I made this alteration to ensure that the train pulled up at the far end to leave space for engine 0H06 and complete the join. I have also tried ajusting the length of 5H06, but all to no avail.
I have returned to previous saves, but still encounter the same problem at this platform.

I am actually quite surprised that nobody else seems to have had this problem.

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My goodness, that was difficult, but I managed it.
Last edited: 28/07/2017 at 12:26 by bugsy
Reason: None given

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Straddling the points??? 28/07/2017 at 12:29 #97669
bugsy
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440 posts
bugsy in post 97658 said:
Oh dear, stuck again.

I’m playing Kings Cross 1955 (steam) Summer TT and have got a little problem.
5H06 has stopped at Drayton Park Platform 1, the engine has detached and become 0H07-1. 5H06 has waited for new engine 0H06 to arrive and when attached this train is due to depart for Finsbury Park Platform 6. This is all fine so far, except that now I don’t seem to be able to set the route from signal 363 on the up line to signal 373 on the down line towards Finsbury Park as the trains appear to straddle the points. I can’t understand why this is, because the combined length of 5H06, 0H06 and 0H07 is 90m and platform 1 is 124m long
Furthermore, 0H07-1 is now ready to depart, but is complaining that 5H06 is in front, but he’ll have to be patient. Would the solution be to reduce the length of 5H06 so that the points aren’t straddled and consequently allow me to set the route, or have I missed something obvious.
I have attached a saved game to assist. I can provide an earlier save if requested to do so.

Just a note to Steve to say thanks for producing this very interesting TT with lots of shunting, etc. Really enjoyable even though I have to use the pause button periodically!

Edit: I have sellected 'show track circuits breaks' in the Options menu and it appears that the small section of TC just before the platform isn't clearing.
I have read through previous Kings Cross posts and found one where someone said the they couldn't get 0H06 to join 5H06 and the soloution given was to alter the stopping point for 5H06 in the 'Train List' so that it stopped at the exact far end of the platform. I made this alteration to ensure that the train pulled up at the far end to leave space for engine 0H06 and complete the join. I have also tried ajusting the length of 5H06, but all to no avail.
I have returned to previous saves, but still encounter the same problem at this platform.

I am actually quite surprised that nobody else seems to have had this problem.

My goodness, that was difficult, but I managed it.
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Straddling the points??? 28/07/2017 at 13:19 #97670
Stephen Fulcher
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1471 posts
5H06 being only 70 metres should fit as the platform is 124 metres long, so I would expect ordering it to stop Far End Exact would work.

Given that the train has already arrived at Drayton Park changing the stopping position now will not help, you would need to do it before it arrives.

If you provide a save from before the train arrived I would be happy to try it for you.

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Straddling the points??? 28/07/2017 at 14:05 #97671
Lagertoe
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48 posts
I had the same problem as well. I restarted from an earlier snapshot changed the stopping point to FX and had no problem. I did have a go at this sim pre loader and cannot remember the problems being there.
Also had the same problem at Bowes park RR in the 1977 timetable with the ECS to Bounds green. Had to change all the ECS going in to FX in order to get the loco on top without fouling the point work. This certainly was not a problem pre loader

Last edited: 28/07/2017 at 14:29 by Lagertoe
Reason: Gramma

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Straddling the points??? 28/07/2017 at 15:47 #97672
bugsy
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Stephen Fulcher in post 97670 said:
5H06 being only 70 metres should fit as the platform is 124 metres long, so I would expect ordering it to stop Far End Exact would work.

Given that the train has already arrived at Drayton Park changing the stopping position now will not help, you would need to do it before it arrives.

If you provide a save from before the train arrived I would be happy to try it for you.
Hello Stephen.

I seem to remember changing the stopping position before the train arrved at Drayton park and yet the same situation still occured.
I have attached an earlier save in which I have done that and it is now awaiting the arrival of the new engine which I think enters the sim at Hornsey EMU Depot.

Please let me know how it develops and if you get the same problem as me, what solution you are able to find, presuming that there is one.

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My goodness, that was difficult, but I managed it.
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Straddling the points??? 28/07/2017 at 16:44 #97674
Stephen Fulcher
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1471 posts
I have taken a look at that save but it doesn't really help as it is still from after the train has arrived.

I can see that the timetable of 5H06 has been edited for an FX stop, but the original timetable hasn't so you must have done it after the train entered the sim. Did you edit it BEFORE the train arrived at Drayton Park or after?

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Straddling the points??? 28/07/2017 at 17:26 #97675
bugsy
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Stephen Fulcher in post 97674 said:
I have taken a look at that save but it doesn't really help as it is still from after the train has arrived.

I can see that the timetable of 5H06 has been edited for an FX stop, but the original timetable hasn't so you must have done it after the train entered the sim. Did you edit it BEFORE the train arrived at Drayton Park or after?
Yes I did edit it after that train entered the sim and before it arrived at Drayton Park. I didn't think that you could edit a train before it enters the sim, as it doesn't appear in the train list.

I have attached an earlier save which I have also edited and as you can see 5H06 hasn't got as far as Drayton Park.
It takes quite a while for the new engine 0H06 to arrive from Hornsey EMU Depot, but you'll have plenty to do in the meantime!

pear

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My goodness, that was difficult, but I managed it.
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Straddling the points??? 28/07/2017 at 21:26 #97682
clive
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bugsy in post 97658 said:

5H06 has waited for new engine 0H06 to arrive and when attached this train is due to depart for Finsbury Park Platform 6. This is all fine so far, except that now I don’t seem to be able to set the route from signal 363 on the up line to signal 373 on the down line towards Finsbury Park as the trains appear to straddle the points. I can’t understand why this is, because the combined length of 5H06, 0H06 and 0H07 is 90m and platform 1 is 124m long
Furthermore, 0H07-1 is now ready to depart, but is complaining that 5H06 is in front,
[...]
I have attached a saved game to assist.
5H06 has its front 9m on track TMOC and the rest on TMOB. 0H07 is 98m from the start of TMOD (which is the station according to the data I have got, though I don't know how old that is). Both are stationary. There is no 0H06 in the saved game.

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Straddling the points??? 29/07/2017 at 03:27 #97687
BarryM
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2074 posts
clive in post 97682 said:
bugsy in post 97658 said:

5H06 has waited for new engine 0H06 to arrive and when attached this train is due to depart for Finsbury Park Platform 6. This is all fine so far, except that now I don’t seem to be able to set the route from signal 363 on the up line to signal 373 on the down line towards Finsbury Park as the trains appear to straddle the points. I can’t understand why this is, because the combined length of 5H06, 0H06 and 0H07 is 90m and platform 1 is 124m long
Furthermore, 0H07-1 is now ready to depart, but is complaining that 5H06 is in front,
[...]
I have attached a saved game to assist.
5H06 has its front 9m on track TMOC and the rest on TMOB. 0H07 is 98m from the start of TMOD (which is the station according to the data I have got, though I don't know how old that is). Both are stationary. There is no 0H06 in the saved game.
Running the saved attachment, 0H06 runs out of Hornsey Up Sidings and couples up to 5H06. There is no overhang.

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Straddling the points??? 29/07/2017 at 11:26 #97693
bugsy
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BarryM in post 97687 said:


Running the saved attachment, 0H06 runs out of Hornsey Up Sidings and couples up to 5H06. There is no overhang.

Barry
Now things are starting to get interesting!
First of all I also ran my saved game (06.44 save) and found that I too didn't get an overhang.
Howver, in the first screen shot below, which was saved when I encountered the problem several days ago it does show an overhang. You can also see that by this time the next train due at Drayton Park is waiting at the approach signal.
I then ran a different saved game (06.40) and have found that the problem has been reproduced. Look at the second screen shot.

It would appear to me that this intermitent, but can anybody give an explanation I wonder?




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My goodness, that was difficult, but I managed it.
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Straddling the points??? 29/07/2017 at 22:57 #97716
BarryM
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All the reversal movements are controlled by the trains timetable.

Need saved files to be able to solve your problems.

For starters, you need to reverse 0H07 to face UP direction then have it shunt forward.
Do the same for 5H06. The overhang should clear and 5H06 and 0H07 should then follow their timetables.

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Last edited: 29/07/2017 at 23:16 by BarryM
Reason: xinfo

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Straddling the points??? 30/07/2017 at 02:16 #97721
BarryM
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Bugsy,

Further to the above post, I did some experimenting with my 1955 timetable. I found that the timetables for 5H06 and 0H06 are correct and the trains function correctly.

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Straddling the points??? 30/07/2017 at 11:37 #97728
bugsy
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440 posts
BarryM in post 97716 said:
All the reversal movements are controlled by the trains timetable.

Need saved files to be able to solve your problems.

For starters, you need to reverse 0H07 to face UP direction then have it shunt forward.
Do the same for 5H06. The overhang should clear and 5H06 and 0H07 should then follow their timetables.

Barry
Hello Barry

My first post included the saved game attachment (170727-180115 sim time 065529.ssg) in which I first encountered the problem.
If you recall, in an earlier post I attached another saved game (170728-171536 sim time 0641100.ssg) which I edited as Stephen suggested and which you then ran and found that there was no overhang. I also re-ran that saved game and again the problem didn't arise. I have since repeated this exercise with the same result and continued to run the sim, reaching 07.40 with no further problems.

In a subsequent post, I said that I ran yet another earlier saved game (06.40) and found that the problem wasn’t reproduced. My final post suggested that the problem was intermittent, for whatever reason.

Finally, I have tried reversing the direction and shunting forwards both trains in the platform. Neither showed the direction as ‘Up’ although they were ‘manually reversing’ (presumably therefore in the down direction), but unfortunately I was unsuccessful. Perhaps I was doing something wrong.

My goodness, that was difficult, but I managed it.
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