***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17

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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 27/08/2017 at 22:21 #101292
Ar88
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Really enjoyed that, bar a certain idiot throwing his toys out of the pram and mucking about with other peoples' panels...

Looking forward to the next one already!

The Welsh contingent. Aron, or Ar to mates. Also known as 88E or ThatManCalledAr.
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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 28/08/2017 at 09:40 #101299
kbarber
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Must admit I'm not likely to join in at present (haven't had time to fire up a sim for months now), but I think there's an issue with modern vs dinosaur (OK British Rail era) regulating. Mark says trains runnng RT take priority over late runners. That's how it's done these days, bevcause of the privatisation-era performance regime. In BR days trains would be regulated to reduce overall delays, which might well mean holding a RT stopper to get the late running fast ahead of it (but possibly not where they were actually due to pass). Back in the 1980s it was common for Willesden PSB (OK, Jim Peplar, who was one of the box supervisors) to let a freightliner out at Wembley mid-peak, just behind a fast passenger but ahead of the following stopper; a couple of minutes delay to the passenger before Harrow, but by the time he reached Watford the 'liner had got into its stride and the stopper never saw anything of him again (and the lateness was taken up by the recovery time anyway). You'd get shot for that on the modern railway.
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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 28/08/2017 at 10:48 #101300
Andrew G
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Having shared the frustration of inattentive users I have been watching this thread with interest.

While possibly controversial one option for advanced sessions might be a red card option. Not against an individual but based on the overall session. For example:

First Wrong Route - host issues yellow card as a caution
Second Wrong Route - host issues red card and terminates the session

Although this might be seen as draconian it might lead to a more professional session. The potential downside will of course be less experienced users who deem themselves to be advanced users - join the session regardless of how it has been positioned - and then lead to its termination.

As on an earlier thread I do think there is room for three levels of sessions - perhaps:

Advanced - not necessarily with my red card proposal
Moderate - open to all - but users should have a reasonable level experience on the simulation (e.g. not just purchased it)
Beginner - designed for users new to hosted sessions or who want to experience a busier panel (e.g. Centre on New Street)

Just my thoughts to add to the debate.

Andrew

P.S. It would also be great if 'Pro' and other Hosts could remember to update the status of their session when it has been closed and only use 'Paused' for sessions which have stopped for Personal Needs Breaks (i.e. the session is still live but paused - not closed and to be continued).

Last edited: 28/08/2017 at 11:17 by Andrew G
Reason: None given

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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 28/08/2017 at 17:41 #101303
MarkC
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kbarber in post 101299 said:
Must admit I'm not likely to join in at present (haven't had time to fire up a sim for months now), but I think there's an issue with modern vs dinosaur (OK British Rail era) regulating. Mark says trains runnng RT take priority over late runners. That's how it's done these days, bevcause of the privatisation-era performance regime. In BR days trains would be regulated to reduce overall delays, which might well mean holding a RT stopper to get the late running fast ahead of it (but possibly not where they were actually due to pass). Back in the 1980s it was common for Willesden PSB (OK, Jim Peplar, who was one of the box supervisors) to let a freightliner out at Wembley mid-peak, just behind a fast passenger but ahead of the following stopper; a couple of minutes delay to the passenger before Harrow, but by the time he reached Watford the 'liner had got into its stride and the stopper never saw anything of him again (and the lateness was taken up by the recovery time anyway). You'd get shot for that on the modern railway.
I will admidt that the way I do it may seem like the privatised railway, but my reasoning is simple, deleying a RT will incure more delay minutes as you are holding them up to try and make time up on a train already running late in the hope of making up time, keeping RT times to time and only deleying late running trains theoretically means the fewest trains running late.

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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 28/08/2017 at 21:15 #101312
Red For Danger
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For those of us who were unavailable to join the 'Pro' session, can somebody let us know how it went and if there were any issues .....?

Thanks.

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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 28/08/2017 at 22:31 #101318
chrisdmadd
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Red For Danger in post 101312 said:
For those of us who were unavailable to join the 'Pro' session, can somebody let us know how it went and if there were any issues .....?

Thanks.
I think it went very well. For me it was a challenge to keep up with checking all the panels for late runners and good regulation along with platform use etc. But for a host who can sometimes have nothing to do it was enjoyable and probably more challenging than running a panel.

I definitely don't think I could run it with delays on though. You would need to understand delay attribution and I don't profess to know all the ins and out so keeping it basic and simple like we did created a score for each person.

Andy suggested getting help to monitor the panels by those members in the Queue which I think is a good idea. It would need some more trials to see how that one would work though. I could have done with an extra pair of eyes!

Everyone who took part said they enjoyed it very much. It just added a little bit more pressure to the signallers and ensured they did their best rather than just another old MP sim session.

I'll defiantly try it again with a few tweaks.

I may ask for people to register their interest for a particular panel and a particular time slot, as it was popular. I'd draw names out of a hat and have reserves for each panel in case of no shows. Then when we start there would be no bickering like their was the other night.

All good so far though.

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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 28/08/2017 at 23:19 #101322
RainbowNines
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kbarber in post 101299 said:
Must admit I'm not likely to join in at present (haven't had time to fire up a sim for months now), but I think there's an issue with modern vs dinosaur (OK British Rail era) regulating. Mark says trains runnng RT take priority over late runners. That's how it's done these days, bevcause of the privatisation-era performance regime. In BR days trains would be regulated to reduce overall delays, which might well mean holding a RT stopper to get the late running fast ahead of it (but possibly not where they were actually due to pass). Back in the 1980s it was common for Willesden PSB (OK, Jim Peplar, who was one of the box supervisors) to let a freightliner out at Wembley mid-peak, just behind a fast passenger but ahead of the following stopper; a couple of minutes delay to the passenger before Harrow, but by the time he reached Watford the 'liner had got into its stride and the stopper never saw anything of him again (and the lateness was taken up by the recovery time anyway). You'd get shot for that on the modern railway.
I'm vividly reminded of Jack Warland's book (one of a suite of fine Railway books that I trust you're working on adding to, Mr Barber )

When the WR took control of former Southern metals in the south west he alluded to a moment where, at the behest of a WR controller, he sent an unfitted freight RT ahead of a late running express. The express took a beating and lost nearly half an hour. To highlight his dismay, he explained he would have been removed from duty and probably suspended for that decision under SR management, but the WR did things differently.

So this syndrome may not be as novel as the privatised Railway!

Last edited: 28/08/2017 at 23:21 by RainbowNines
Reason: None given

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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 29/08/2017 at 08:56 #101327
Tomiexpress
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As far as the idea is correct, I am afraid that it will only be for people with uk, strictly knowledgeable uk rule book, and not for people like me from other countries, even from the railway sector, where we know our internal rules and here we use and logic such as the principle of traffic flow and the reduction of delays where possible or the smooth change of platforms during delays or faults (without interfering with the timetable).
I only hope that we will not be cataloged as a worse sort and this is not going to make the community SimSig on the elite and the rest of the world ;)

powered by google translator
Greetings
Tomiexpress ( train driver PL )

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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 29/08/2017 at 09:08 #101328
kbarber
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RainbowNines in post 101322 said:
kbarber in post 101299 said:
Must admit I'm not likely to join in at present (haven't had time to fire up a sim for months now), but I think there's an issue with modern vs dinosaur (OK British Rail era) regulating. Mark says trains runnng RT take priority over late runners. That's how it's done these days, bevcause of the privatisation-era performance regime. In BR days trains would be regulated to reduce overall delays, which might well mean holding a RT stopper to get the late running fast ahead of it (but possibly not where they were actually due to pass). Back in the 1980s it was common for Willesden PSB (OK, Jim Peplar, who was one of the box supervisors) to let a freightliner out at Wembley mid-peak, just behind a fast passenger but ahead of the following stopper; a couple of minutes delay to the passenger before Harrow, but by the time he reached Watford the 'liner had got into its stride and the stopper never saw anything of him again (and the lateness was taken up by the recovery time anyway). You'd get shot for that on the modern railway.
I'm vividly reminded of Jack Warland's book (one of a suite of fine Railway books that I trust you're working on adding to, Mr Barber )

When the WR took control of former Southern metals in the south west he alluded to a moment where, at the behest of a WR controller, he sent an unfitted freight RT ahead of a late running express. The express took a beating and lost nearly half an hour. To highlight his dismay, he explained he would have been removed from duty and probably suspended for that decision under SR management, but the WR did things differently.

So this syndrome may not be as novel as the privatised Railway!
Of course there may have been politics involved in that decision. The Gas Works Railway was known for doing down 'rival' lines it took over (rather as the LM did down the GC when it took over around the same time, in both cases leading to closure as through routes). Hammering a four-beat on a regular basis might well lead to patronage declining... it all helps improve the case for withdrawal and thence closure.

BR simply didn't have the concept of 'delay minutes', there was an overall imperative (understood, if never written down) to do whatever was possible for the overall benefit of the service - which was intended to be for the overall benefit of the customers. If that meant holding back a stopper for a few minutes, so passengers could make their connections and the fast could get a clear road (thus best chance of recovering a bit of time), that's what would happen. These days, an all-stations starting at (say) Oxford gets let out ahead of a late-running Cross-Country, which then gets stopped at every other signal down the Cherwell Valley to Banbury (losing time hand over fist). At Banbury, with the old 7 minute section to Fenny Compton, the stopper is put through the down main platform and departs RT while the fast sits virtually within sight of it (more lost connections), then sits at Banbury North and waits for the Fenny section to clear. (And yes, I have seen exactly that happen.) Passngers? Who cares? There's lots of lovely compensation to come from the originator of whatever sequence of events delayed the fast.

This isn't necessarily about whether private or public ownership is better. (The Swiss do hugely better with a complete mixture.) It's about the stupid scheme that was implemented in this country, and quite frankly even politicians of our calibre ought to have known better. But it does mean the skill of regulating has just-about died out completely and will do so utterly within the next decade.

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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 29/08/2017 at 11:05 #101331
BANNED
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Can we do a Stafford pro server tonight please?
If no-one likes me, why should I like them? Just like a Arsenal v Tottenham game in the Premier League.
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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 29/08/2017 at 18:32 #101346
chrisdmadd
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fam622 in post 101331 said:
Can we do a Stafford pro server tonight please? :)
Are you for real?

Your banned from all my games.

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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 29/08/2017 at 19:47 #101348
BANNED
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If no-one likes me, why should I like them? Just like a Arsenal v Tottenham game in the Premier League.
Last edited: 29/08/2017 at 19:54 by BANNED
Reason: Becos I made another post below

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***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 29/08/2017 at 20:01 #101353
headshot119
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Moderator Note - I have temporarily deleted several posts from this thread.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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