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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug?

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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 11/12/2017 at 20:51 #103885
Albert
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In the attached save train 2W02 was delayed and called that it was ready to depart at 05:46. However it does not TRTS and keeps being held by conditions, until I set its route, then it suddenly shows waiting for right-away and departs.

I am wondering, is this a bug or a feature?

(Loader 4.6.5.4, sim version 3.5, 2013 era)

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Last edited: 11/12/2017 at 22:24 by Albert
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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 12/12/2017 at 16:36 #103897
GeoffM
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Do you remember which platform it was in?
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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 12/12/2017 at 22:20 #103906
Jan
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It's in platform 16, so might that be the condition added for issue #8996 to prevent the train pulling up the signal when a route has been set to the second signal on platform 15 (signal 47)?
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 13/12/2017 at 09:37 #103914
Albert
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GeoffM in post 103897 said:
Do you remember which platform it was in?
In the save it is in 16 but I had another case occuring in 17.

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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 13/12/2017 at 12:36 #103919
Chromatix
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I just experimented a little bit with the stock 2016 (midnight) timetable. This has three trains depart from P16 and P17 in the first 40 minutes - the first being at 00:01 (though it won't actually call TRTS until a couple of minutes later, due to the way seeding is done).

With no conflicts, delays or failures, these trains will TRTS and ARS will signal them out by the southern route (direct to signal 59), avoiding the end of P15.

If you manually key the points towards P15, or have an inbound route conflicting with the southern route, they will still TRTS but ARS will do nothing, and Train List shows "held by conditions". As soon as the conflict is removed, ARS will call the southern route as above and the train will then depart.

If you manually set the route to the P15 outer starter, ARS will disengage due to "routed off path", the P16/17 starter will remain at Red, and the train is "held by conditions". Continuing the route from the P15 starter to signal 59 restores ARS and clears both signals, and the train departs.

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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 20/12/2017 at 17:25 #104273
Albert
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I have had two more cases of it: one in platform 9 (train 1P36 in attached save 23), also a platform where two signals are passed on departure.
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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 20/12/2017 at 22:29 #104289
MarkC
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Albert in post 104273 said:
I have had two more cases of it: one in platform 9 (train 1P36 in attached save 23), also a platform where two signals are passed on departure.
What is the status of the trains, are they delayed trains and and if so did other delayed trains behave the same way.

Also Have you been running this save across different versions of the loader?

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Last edited: 20/12/2017 at 22:46 by MarkC
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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 21/12/2017 at 01:31 #104291
Chromatix
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I just looked at 23.ssg for you. You have failed points which are blocking P9's normal route to the Down Main, and the alternate route which remains accessible requires using a different outer starter signal. I see that you've also switched off several ARS areas, including P5-10 Departures, so ARS naturally isn't calling anything.

Nevertheless, 1P36 should still be calling TRTS in this situation - its driver should not know or care about the state of the points, only the signal right in front of him. That's clearly a bug.

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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 21/12/2017 at 10:10 #104300
Albert
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More evidence - a train in platform 11.

@MarkC: this is all about trains which called me that they had a problem, then got held by conditions after the phonecall to report that the train was ready to depart.

The Loader version is 4.6.6 here; no change from 4.6.5 in this regard.

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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 22/12/2017 at 00:59 #104329
GeoffM
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The train activating the TRTS, and the ARS setting the route (waiting for TRTS if appropriate) are two completely independent things. The former is due to these advance starters: SimSig is programmed to approach a signal if it is proved (in technical terms: ascon) but not showing proceed. This is to prevent chicken and egg situations where the train won't approach the signal because it's red, and the signal won't show proceed because there is no train there. Obviously that's not the case here so additional conditions were placed on the train's departure instead, which affected its ability to operate TRTS. This has now been fixed and is in testing.

ARS saying "join planned/awaited" is a separate issue, not mentioned in this thread I think, but has also been fixed and is being tested.

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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 22/12/2017 at 11:27 #104337
Albert
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I have another case of held by conditions: trains in P9/10, blocked by a TCF, not phoning for a red signal. I wonder if it is related, since these trains did activate TRTS?
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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 22/12/2017 at 20:38 #104357
postal
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Albert in post 104337 said:
I have another case of held by conditions: trains in P9/10, blocked by a TCF, not phoning for a red signal. I wonder if it is related, since these trains did activate TRTS?
Is this a similar situation to your Liverpool Street report where you are finding errors which may be due to reloading a saved game to a newer version of the loader?

"If you can find something everyone agrees on, it's wrong." - Morris King Udall (15/06/1922 – 12/12/1998), American politician.
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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 24/12/2017 at 15:16 #104429
Albert
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I was hoping that the technical people here would be able to point it out from a saved game if the error was a result of a previous loader used at an earlier time in the game. Anyway, Geoff just told us at least one case of held by conditions has been resolved, and I'll be more careful with loader versions next time.
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Last edited: 24/12/2017 at 15:18 by Albert
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Delayed train "Held by conditions" - bug? 24/12/2017 at 17:04 #104436
GeoffM
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In this case saving is not a factor. Trains will still show held by conditions in F2 (as they are doing exactly that) but they will operate TRTS and depart normally. Held by conditions is like "right away".
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