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1989/1990 Timetable.

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1989/1990 Timetable. 10/01/2018 at 22:13 #104961
03piggs
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Not sure if this would intrest anyone, but recently I started investigating the possibility of a timetable in the 1990ish era. I've got a 1989 passenger timetable and a digital 1990 freight timetable, so I thought I'd give it a go. Haven't got very far yet, so don't be surprised if this doesn't get put up release yet (also be the first timetable I submit, so not sure it be up to scratch), but so far got all the freight in on. Noticed a couple of things that I'm in need of help with;

1) Stansted oil siding.
I've looked in the wiki, but I can't seem to find the distance between the exit of Stansted down goods loop and the ground frame controlling access to the siding. This because I need to make a run round before departing south. I have tried it, and found the loco and train couldn't find each other. Possibly because some of it was still in the siding?

2) Bishops Stortford stone trains.
These use the Charringtons CCD, but the thing is the TT analysis says terminates with no onward working, but the train will drop off the sim when they enter. Also not sure on motive power or length of these trains.

3) Loco halled passenger/parcels
There's a few loco halled parcels trains on the timetable (though it says DPU in the WTT) I'm not sure of length of these and the liv st-Kings Lynn trains. Also, where these halled by 86s as far as Cambridge at this date? The WTT says there diesel halled (which would be 47s) but thought only the first down working/last up working where the only ones that where diesel halled throughout?

Apart from these problems, it seams to be going ok so far, bit of a problem with Cheshunt as the bay was able to be accessed of the main, so might be a bit of juggling there.

Any help would be greatful. Hopefully when it's done, I'll try to submit it.

Thanks in advance
Stuart

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1989/1990 Timetable. 11/01/2018 at 15:45 #104975
58050
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In the period you are talking about the loco hauled services to & from Liverpool Street to Cambridge were worked by Cl.86/2 locos with varied coaching stock as Mk.1 & Mk.2 coaches. At Cambridge they changed traction to Stratford(SF) based Cl.47/4 locos for the onward journey to King's Lynn. The Cl.86/2 locos would then return to Liverpool Street on the next UP loco hauled workings. Don't recall any pf the parcels traffic being hauled by Cl.86/2, they were generally diesel hauled with either Cl.31/4 or Cl.47/4 locos belonging to the parcels sector. When I started work in 1990 at Liverpool Street Regional Control Office the only EPUs running were between Norwich & Liverpool Street as well as a diagram from Chelmsford PD. There weren't any EPU or DPUs running between Liverpool Street & Cambridge or visa versa. The DPUs mainly operated between Cambridge - Norwich & return or Cambridge - Peterborough & return.
Last edited: 11/01/2018 at 15:46 by 58050
Reason: corrected typos

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1989/1990 Timetable. 12/01/2018 at 13:34 #105001
03piggs
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Thanks 58050! I thought there wasn't that many DPUs at that time, and that's a bit of a journey with one of those considering the loadings at that time. You wouldn't know what the normal loading was at the time or can point me in the right direction to find out? I'm guessing like 4/5 BGs and poss 2/3 GUVs?

I thought the 86s had started working as far as Cambridge by this time. Thanks for confirming that. I watched a video of a cab ride in a 47 on YouTube about this time. I think it mentioned that the first working was a 47 throughout, then shuttled between Cambridge-Kings Lynn till the last up working when it worked back throughout to Liverpool Street.

Also guessing the oil trains that pass through would be halled by ripple lane 37/8s?

My main problem is really the loco halled pass/parcels/freight lengths and motive power.
Thanks for any help.
Stuart

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1989/1990 Timetable. 12/01/2018 at 14:03 #105002
58050
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It just depends at the end of the day how accurate you want your timetable to be. When I write timetables I use all the of the BR books I kept & have since been given or got off e-bay such as WTTs, freight train loads books, passenger train marshalling books, loco diagrams, trip notices & station working books(aka Arrival & Departure books). Some of those items are exetremly difficult to get hold of. But even when you do have all this stuff the timetable you create is basically what's written on paper, but in the real world things are very different & it would be impossible to get it 100% accurate unless you wrote a timetable for a specific day & had all the loco numbers matched with the actual trains they worked & all the unit numbers. For example you could have a loco hauled service from Liverpool Street - King's Lynn diagrammed for a Cl.86/2 from Liverpool Street to Cambrisge & a SF Cl.47/4 forward. But the Cl.47/4 at Cambridge could be an OC(Old Oak Common loco) for arguements sake & that could be allocated to work the train forward. I was Senior Traction Controller at Liverpool Street RCO from 1990 - 1993 when the loco controls were removed from the Regional Control Offices & then became Duty Freight Manager for a year before privatisation. I was responsible for the allocation & provision of diesel locos to work trains at Stratford, Ripple Lane, Cambridge, Ipswich, Norwich & Harwich. There was an assistant to us who controlled all the AC eletric locos on the Anglia Region & the diesels at March. Now if a Cl.86/2 failed he'd usually ask if we had a diesel to cover the train. I've used Cl.47/4s & even Cl.37/0 to pick up the workings of a failed Cl.86/2. So you can only use what the aqctual loco diagrams state.
Another things you need to know are what EMUs worked the services on West Abglia. Now in 1990 there were Cl.317 units running between Cambridge & Liverpool Street vv, but Chingford & all the others such as Enfield Town were Cl.305 3 car sets, Cl.308 (3 & 4 car sets), 4 car Cl.315 units & some 4 car Cl.312 units IIRC. Later the Cl.312 units went over to the LTS as more & more Cl.317 units came onto West Anglia.
The freight side for example the oil tanks to Cambridge was predominantly worked by a Cl.37/7 off Ripple Lane. Alot of the traffic in & out of Leyton engineers yard was worked by Cl.31/1 or Cl.37/0 locos off Stratford TMD unless they came from Ipswich, March or Harwich. The stone train to Harlow Mill would have been worked by a Cl.59/0 belonging to Foster Yeoman. The Broxbourne SCN service from Toton Old Bank was usually worked by CF Cl.37/0, but have seen it worked by Cl.20x2 as March men signed Cl.20 locos.
The other thing to consider is whether the West Anglia sim is capable of handling a BR era timetable as the layout has no doubt changed & certain locations that were used then may not be on the sim. I never bought a licence for West Anglia as AFAIK it was the modern era only & I don't do the modern era as that doesn't interest me. But I wish you luck with it. The loco hauled services between Liverpool Street & King's Lynn vv were usually 9 coaches & also included a micro buffet in the formation.

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1989/1990 Timetable. 12/01/2018 at 14:41 #105003
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Thanks again 58050. That's going to be really helpful for me, thanks. I was unsure on most of the workings, as I was only born in 1991! Lol!
Weirdly, I think that I can fit the timetable into the track plan. The only place where there's a bit of a problem is that constains siding at Rye House isn't simulated, so I have to have it spend 5 mins there and then sit in Broxbourne Recp till its passing time!

Thanks, you know how successful I am if I post that I've submitted it!
Thanks again
Stuart

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1989/1990 Timetable. 12/01/2018 at 17:43 #105006
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With regards to NPCCS movements such as parcels or mail traffic the conveyance of vans between Cambridge & Liverpool Street wouldn't be more than half a dozen GUV/BGs. Back in 1985-1988 there used to be a van train from Peterborough to Liverpool Street. Back in 1985 even a Cl.37/0 could have worked that train (3C53 IIRC), but from 1988 onwards we get into the realms of sectorisation & as a result van trains were worked by Cl.47/4 or Cl.31/4 locos. The Peterborough - Liverpool Street van train if it still ran in 1989 because it didn't run in 1990 when I started at Liverpool Street could have up to 10 vans on it as it formede other trains at Liverpool Street. If you haven't already done so download the Length Calculator off the downloads section, then you can calculate the train lengths. There was also a daily movement of 'Q' cars between Bishops Stortford & Ilford EMUD - Bishops Sytortford which you to run via Liverpool Street. Usually formed of 2 sets coupled together of various EMU stock. They were called 'Q' cars as 'Q' means runs when required. But more often than not it ran everyday taking units to Ilford EMUD for exam or repairs & a fresh set off repairs or exam back to balance. IIRC that train should appear in the WTT.
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