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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04

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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 21/01/2018 at 23:01 #105308
VInce
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Hi all,

I know I promised Version 1.04 a while ago now, but I suspended work on it as issues with Loader 4.6.6 made it difficult to use (the join planned at Rxxx bug)

That has been resolved now in Loader 4.6.7 and I have spent much time this last week getting the new version ready. I expect to upload it in 10 days or so.

There are a lot of changes in this version from the last published Version 1.01.

1) Shunt moves now work well and are used at Crescent Sidings and Peterborough Up yard.

2) From information received I've restructured all of the trip working, adding four new trips and expanding the existing ones - which was a considerable task.

3) Some minor alterations to DMU and stock working at Peterborough, especially in the way the early morning London starting trains are dealt with. Locos now arrive in Nene CS early for preheat purposes, and the loco and stock is hauled by the Nene shunt engine to the up yard where the shunt engine is detached and follows out back to the Nene again.

4) Again from information received, it appears that ECS propelling moves in the Peterborough station area were only permitted with brake vehicle as the leading or 2nd vehicle in the direction of travel. Thus some ECS moves now require the use of the Nene CS pilot engine or the Peterborough Station Pilot engine.

5) More overnight ballast trains run, typical of the trains used at the time. Additionally, the number of daytime OTM transit movements has been increased and greater use is made of Peterborough Spur Sidings and Peterborough East Sidings to stable engineers machines and traffic. I have retained the possession trains on the Saturday evening timetable which will require the user to take possessions - full instructions will be given to those that have not faced this scenario before.

6) Much use is made of the new train crew dwell times which are excellent with the ability to have train crew in place well before the train is due. So if a train runs early, it can continue on it way early even if its booked train crew relief. This is a much more realistic scenario - from my memory train crew were always keen to get going on their way home.

7) I have discovered a number of photographs of the time showing parcel vans stabled in P1 at Peterborough. In this timetable three vans are stabled in P1 during the day to take parcel traffic transferred from incoming trains. These vans are then attached to an early morning train to go northwards with three vans detached from a southbound train to replace them for unloading and loading. The bulk of the parcels activity though still occurs at Peterborough Parcels terminal in the down yard. The station pilot engine also stables in P1 in between jobs.

Every effort has been made to make this a real world 1977 timetable. Freight and Parcel trains did not hang about waiting for WTT time - they just left as long as there was a margin to the next refuge point and there was no asking adjacent boxes if they would take it early. Other boxes reciprocated the arrangement! The timetable should allow you to work in the spirit of those times.

This will be the last update to Peterborough 1977 - in figures, the timetable has now 1145 trains, 533 rules and 110 Decisions and is getting very unwieldy to edit. I have also used the Defensive Driving module on every train. Although this was an unknown concept in 1977, I find that trains now slow down in a smoother way than with the default settings. I could never get the "flashing double yellow" to reduce the train speed but as I'm pretty sure that flashing aspects weren't around in 1977, it is immaterial.

In a couple of cases I have had to use a little license. The siding at Offord is not simulated so I have shown a train to detach it St. Neots DS in its place. Similarly, one train from the March direction is shown to enter Peterborough East Sidings to detach. The sim does not permit a reversal at P162 which would be required, so it runs forward to Crescent Sidings and the traffic tripped back to Peterborough East on one of the scheduled trips.

Once again I offer my sincere thanks to Peter Bennet who wrote the original Friday only 1977 timetable on which this is based.

I'm in final testing now and it should be around in 10 days or less.

Vince

I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
Last edited: 22/01/2018 at 00:25 by VInce
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 22/01/2018 at 10:34 #105316
whitetigger
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Sounds like you've put an awful lot of effort into this, especially on top of the initial effort I know you went to for the initial release. I really look forward to playing through it once it's released.
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 22/01/2018 at 11:18 #105320
Colourlight
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This is the sort of timeble I like. I can appreciate the time and effort that both you and anyone else who creates timetables spends on these projects.
Peterborough has a special interest for me as I live in March, 15 track miles away and have spent many a happy hour watching Deltics, Brush 4,s, Peaks and English Electric type 4,s passing through Peterborough on the East Coast expresses. (That is what they were called in those bygone days).
I can still hear the "clang" as the wheeltapper walked along the stopping trains hitting the steel wheels with his hammer. I think he did it because he liked the noise.
Footnote; point 6 is still true today up to a point, except that Network Rail considers any signaller who runs a train earlier out of it,s booked path to be the antichrist.

Last edited: 22/01/2018 at 11:23 by Colourlight
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 22/01/2018 at 12:33 #105329
clive
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VInce in post 105308 said:

The siding at Offord is not simulated
Reported a while ago - Mantis 17436.

VInce in post 105308 said:

Similarly, one train from the March direction is shown to enter Peterborough East Sidings to detach. The sim does not permit a reversal at P162 which would be required,
Raised as Mantis 19427. I haven't looked at it yet.

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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 22/01/2018 at 15:52 #105336
VInce
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Clive,

Thank you for that. A manual reversal is possible of course but of no use when constructing a timetable.

In the location list P798 on the Up March line is shown and I cannot for the life of me think why it would need to be listed.

P798 is located immediately opposite P162, so I wondered if that had anything to do with it.

I did a test and tried using P768 in case it was just a typo for P162 but I can't get any routes to validate.

Regards,

Vince


Vince

I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
Last edited: 22/01/2018 at 15:52 by VInce
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 22/01/2018 at 23:03 #105362
clive
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The path you need is:
Down March (Whittlesea)
Peterborough East
Peterborough S DM
Peterborough East Sidings

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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 22/01/2018 at 23:11 #105363
VInce
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Clive,

Thank you.

I would have never had guessed that Peterborough S DM (Down March?) referred to that move.

I'm very grateful to have found this out before I released the timetable!

Regards,

Vince

I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 15:38 #105376
VInce
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Hi all,

I thought I take a bit of a straw poll regarding one aspect of the new 1977 timetable.

In 1977 movements like engineering trains to and from possessions, local trips, station shunts and LD engine movements before and after working trains were never timed in detail. Engineering trains had a basic departure and arrival time on site from the weekly ballast train circular, all the others were just run as could be accommodated amongst the other traffic.

That is how this timetable is constructed as I wanted to be as realistic as possible.

However a tester has made a comment to me that he finds this very difficult to handle as ARS simply does not like trains without times and will stop other trains miles away to give preference to the un-timed train.

In this timetable I have given every train which needs to be operated under non-ARS conditions the suffix NA, e.g. 9T10NA. If you have "train-entering" pop-ups enabled this shows up there, in the F2 list too and if ARS delay colours are enabled, it will show them in red. All the user needs to do is right click and disable the ARS for that train and then signal it manually.

ARS, of course, was never installed at Peterborough in reality, but I get the impression that most single users operate the station and its environs manually and leave ARS enabled outside of that.

So the question I ask is - should I take on the task of timing every movement in the timetable, which will amount to several hundred trips, shunts and LE movements or should I leave it as it is, and ask the user simply to right click to disable ARS for all of those trains.

I guess its a question of whether the users want reality, or convenience?

Vince

I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
Last edited: 23/01/2018 at 15:44 by VInce
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 15:44 #105377
KymriskaDraken
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Shouldn't be using ARS in 1977 :)

I think you can give the trains an nXnn headcode and then they won't be able to be routed by ARS, and ARS should ignore them when it's trying to do other trains.


Kev

Last edited: 23/01/2018 at 15:45 by KymriskaDraken
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 15:45 #105378
VInce
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KymriskaDraken in post 105377 said:
Shouldn't be using ARS in 1977 :)


Kev
I agree but....

Vince

I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 15:54 #105379
VInce
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KymriskaDraken in post 105377 said:
:)

I think you can give the trains an nXnn headcode and then they won't be able to be routed by ARS, and ARS should ignore them when it's trying to do other trains.


Kev
Yes, I thought about that but to an oldie like me, X means something entirely different.

I know you know Kev but for the sake of the more youthful amongst us, apart from 1X01 which has its own special meaning, X signified a train running with special conditions.

Who remembers the telegraph words EXLO and OPPOS? In Speacial Notices and advices of special trains this meant exceptional load and opposite line to be blocked in certain places. In manually signalled areas it meant special bell codes too.

Sadly, my quest for reality means that I can't use X, but its a good idea.

Vince

I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
Last edited: 23/01/2018 at 15:55 by VInce
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 16:11 #105381
Dick
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Putting my flak jacket on, I can never see the point of ARS in sims, might as well just watch a video, particularly one as easy to operate as Peterborough even with Vince's excellent complex timetables.
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 16:20 #105382
58050
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Yes Vince I remember the telegraph codes all too well. Other words that stick in my mind are GOSLING, BYRAG & RESPOND which were quite common on the freight railway. For those not so sure about what the telegraph codes mean if there was a derailment in a yard or on the mainline blocking the line altogether then the Regional Control would issue a GOSLING to all points which basically meant do not send any traffic to this point. BYRAG was usually the next stage where a location could accept traffic, but only under Regional Control arrangements so BYRAG meant By Arrangement Only. Once the incident had been cleared up & normal working could resume then the Regional Control would issue a RESPOND which meant able to accept traffic under normal arrangements. EXLO as Vince mentions was sent when a train conveyed an Exceptional Load. There were various other like HUMPEX which meant that this train could not move over a hump in a yard. Other codes related to the conveyance of certain product for example trains conveying household rubbish or binliners were issued with the term FABRIC which related to the product conveyed as well as a speed limit of 55mph even on freightliner vehicles. Brings back memories. I've got a book in my cupboard with them all in. Not too sure whther they are still used on the railway today. Be intersting to find out though.
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 17:11 #105388
Phil-jmw
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VInce in post 105376 said:
Hi all,

I thought I take a bit of a straw poll regarding one aspect of the new 1977 timetable.

In 1977 movements like engineering trains to and from possessions, local trips, station shunts and LD engine movements before and after working trains were never timed in detail. Engineering trains had a basic departure and arrival time on site from the weekly ballast train circular, all the others were just run as could be accommodated amongst the other traffic.

That is how this timetable is constructed as I wanted to be as realistic as possible.

However a tester has made a comment to me that he finds this very difficult to handle as ARS simply does not like trains without times and will stop other trains miles away to give preference to the un-timed train.

In this timetable I have given every train which needs to be operated under non-ARS conditions the suffix NA, e.g. 9T10NA. If you have "train-entering" pop-ups enabled this shows up there, in the F2 list too and if ARS delay colours are enabled, it will show them in red. All the user needs to do is right click and disable the ARS for that train and then signal it manually.

ARS, of course, was never installed at Peterborough in reality, but I get the impression that most single users operate the station and its environs manually and leave ARS enabled outside of that.

So the question I ask is - should I take on the task of timing every movement in the timetable, which will amount to several hundred trips, shunts and LE movements or should I leave it as it is, and ask the user simply to right click to disable ARS for all of those trains.

I guess its a question of whether the users want reality, or convenience?

Vince
Hi Vince,

I run Peterborough with ARS turned on for the gate boxes only so that they can deal with their own crossings as in real life (although I have noticed that Tallington does not 'look back' for trains on the Up Fast and both Slow lines, so I still have to keep an eye open there), so as I too can remember the days when we worked to the ballast notice and no more specific timings I'm happy for the timings to be left blank so that we can figure it out and regulate for ourselves, just as it was done back in the 70's and 80's.


Regards,

Phil

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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 17:14 #105389
Phil-jmw
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58050 in post 105382 said:
Yes Vince I remember the telegraph codes all too well. Other words that stick in my mind are GOSLING, BYRAG & RESPOND which were quite common on the freight railway. For those not so sure about what the telegraph codes mean if there was a derailment in a yard or on the mainline blocking the line altogether then the Regional Control would issue a GOSLING to all points which basically meant do not send any traffic to this point. BYRAG was usually the next stage where a location could accept traffic, but only under Regional Control arrangements so BYRAG meant By Arrangement Only. Once the incident had been cleared up & normal working could resume then the Regional Control would issue a RESPOND which meant able to accept traffic under normal arrangements. EXLO as Vince mentions was sent when a train conveyed an Exceptional Load. There were various other like HUMPEX which meant that this train could not move over a hump in a yard. Other codes related to the conveyance of certain product for example trains conveying household rubbish or binliners were issued with the term FABRIC which related to the product conveyed as well as a speed limit of 55mph even on freightliner vehicles. Brings back memories. I've got a book in my cupboard with them all in. Not too sure whther they are still used on the railway today. Be intersting to find out though.
I worked in the combined Derby TOPS/Telegraph Office in the early 90's and remember it well.


Regards,

Phil.

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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 17:25 #105390
Colourlight
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The codewords are still in use today but in a very limited way. The ones that describe exceptional or out of guage loads are sill in common use. These can be found on the reams of paperwork that every signalbox should have whenever one of these trains passes by.
The most common word is EXLO meaning speed or route restriction.

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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 17:27 #105391
whitetigger
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Phil-jmw in post 105388 said:

Hi Vince,

I run Peterborough with ARS turned on for the gate boxes only so that they can deal with their own crossings as in real life ... so as I too can remember the days when we worked to the ballast notice and no more specific timings I'm happy for the timings to be left blank so that we can figure it out and regulate for ourselves, just as it was done back in the 70's and 80's.
I use the ARS in the same way as Phil so would like to see the realism kept to the high standard of the rest of the timetable and see the timings being omitted.

Last edited: 23/01/2018 at 17:27 by whitetigger
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 17:38 #105392
bossman
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I only use the ARS for classes 1 & 2 trains all the rest are manually controlled.
cliff cook
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 17:50 #105393
VInce
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I worked in the combined Derby TOPS/Telegraph Office in the early 90's and remember it well.


Regards,

Phil.[/quote]

Hi Phil,

Good to hear from you again...

Vince

I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 23/01/2018 at 22:57 #105402
Phil-jmw
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VInce in post 105393 said:
I worked in the combined Derby TOPS/Telegraph Office in the early 90's and remember it well.


Regards,

Phil.
Hi Phil,

Good to hear from you again...

Vince[/quote]

Good to hear from you to Vince. Hope all is well with you.

I'm looking forward to the latest incarnation of your Peterborough TT, I've enjoyed the others so far.

Phil.

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Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable Version 1.04 24/01/2018 at 14:09 #105411
VInce
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bossman in post 105392 said:
I only use the ARS for classes 1 & 2 trains all the rest are manually controlled.
Hi all,

Having run a few tests this morning on the ARS or not issue, I would suggest that for those who wish to use full ARS, Cliff's example is the way to go.

I have made a few train classification alterations so as those who wish to use ARS only need to disable it for Class 0,7,8,9 and "other" before running the timetable.

This gets you the best of both worlds - all of the un-timed trains are of those classifications so there's no right clicking to disable ARS. Thus all of the 0, 7, 8, 9, and "other" trains must be signalled manually.

I really didn't fancy timing another few hundred train anyway!

Vince

I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
Last edited: 24/01/2018 at 21:12 by VInce
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