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TCF with a level crossing?

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TCF with a level crossing? 23/02/2018 at 23:52 #106116
smilerish
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Hi all,

Bit of a newbie question I suspect...

Playing the Exeter sim, and I've been hit by a Track Circuit Failure at Red Cow Level Crossing. So now the crossing will not open no matter what I do!

Or is there a way to open the crossing if a track section through it isn't clear? (In case of emergency, of course.)

Presumably in real life this would be overridden manually at the level crossing itself?

Thanks for any help =)

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TCF with a level crossing? 24/02/2018 at 00:00 #106117
Ar88
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In this instance, I would treat it as if no level crossing existed.....at least until the TCF was fixed!
The Welsh contingent. Aron, or Ar to mates. Also known as 88E or ThatManCalledAr.
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TCF with a level crossing? 24/02/2018 at 00:10 #106118
Hap
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Yes, a MOM would be on site to control crossing manually. Crossing is stuck in lowered position, I would still advise train to pass sign and examine line so that he passes the crossing at caution.
HAP
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TCF with a level crossing? 24/02/2018 at 00:29 #106119
smilerish
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That's essentially what I've been doing. I suppose I just have to ignore the 'excessive delay to road users' warnings.
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TCF with a level crossing? 24/02/2018 at 03:43 #106121
JamesN
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smilerish in post 106116 said:

Playing the Exeter sim, and I've been hit by a Track Circuit Failure at Red Cow Level Crossing. So now the crossing will not open no matter what I do!

Or is there a way to open the crossing if a track section through it isn't clear? (In case of emergency, of course.)
Welcome to the troubles of real life. No, there aren’t any actions the signalman can take to override the crossing the way you’re hoping.

smilerish in post 106116 said:

Presumably in real life this would be overridden manually at the level crossing itself?
Bingo. Most controlled level crossings have a local control unit, in a trackside cabinet at the crossing. Generally, they key to open the LCU is also a switch, which returns and restricts the signals protecting the crossing to danger. Response staff can then manually work the barriers/road lights to the signalman’s instructions. Trains will need to be handsignalled across the crossing.

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TCF with a level crossing? 24/02/2018 at 08:48 #106124
Stephen Fulcher
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Special care has to be taken with AHBs as a lot of them are not interlocked with the normal signalling system, so if their tracks fail the Signaller will see a fault with the crossing but the signals could still clear. In that case trains should still be cautioned.
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TCF with a level crossing? 24/02/2018 at 09:18 #106125
postal
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Stephen Fulcher in post 106124 said:
Special care has to be taken with AHBs as a lot of them are not interlocked with the normal signalling system, so if their tracks fail the Signaller will see a fault with the crossing but the signals could still clear. In that case trains should still be cautioned.
Just for interest, how does that work in real life? If the signal approaching the AHB is an auto signal, does the signaller stop the train at the nearest controlled signal and instruct the driver to proceed as signalled to signal NNN then proceed at caution over the AHB? If that is the case it's not something that can be faithfully replicated using the current SimSig options for passing messages on to the driver. Or is there any other process that duly cautions the train?

"It is a most mortifying reflection for a man to consider what he has done, compared to what he might have done." - Samuel Johnson, English author, 18/09/1709 - 13/12/1784
Last edited: 24/02/2018 at 09:18 by postal
Reason: None given

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TCF with a level crossing? 24/02/2018 at 09:34 #106126
Stephen Fulcher
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Essentially yes
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TCF with a level crossing? 24/02/2018 at 20:07 #106131
Hap
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Kirknewton LC failed almost all the time when it was an AHB, granted the signal on the up WCML was plunger controlled for all stoppers but could be set for 'non-stop- for expresses, the Down WCML had an AUTO signal before the crossing. NR staff placed red flags on each line and signaller cautioned us passed the signal on the Down line, and ont he up line brought us to a stop at the signal on the platform. then shown a yellow flag to proceed when crossing in a fit state to be crossed.
HAP
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TCF with a level crossing? 24/02/2018 at 23:00 #106140
clive
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Stephen Fulcher in post 106124 said:
Special care has to be taken with AHBs as a lot of them are not interlocked with the normal signalling system, so if their tracks fail the Signaller will see a fault with the crossing but the signals could still clear.
Huh? If a track circuit fails then the signal in rear will drop to red.

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TCF with a level crossing? 24/02/2018 at 23:02 #106141
clive
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postal in post 106125 said:

Just for interest, how does that work in real life? If the signal approaching the AHB is an auto signal, does the signaller stop the train at the nearest controlled signal and instruct the driver to proceed as signalled to signal NNN then proceed at caution over the AHB?
The signal in rear should have an emergency replacement button if it's an auto, so the driver can be informed at that signal.

The alternative would be to tell the driver to call back from the protecting signal, and then instruct him to proceed at caution over the AHB.

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TCF with a level crossing? 25/02/2018 at 09:18 #106147
headshot119
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clive in post 106140 said:
Stephen Fulcher in post 106124 said:
Special care has to be taken with AHBs as a lot of them are not interlocked with the normal signalling system, so if their tracks fail the Signaller will see a fault with the crossing but the signals could still clear.
Huh? If a track circuit fails then the signal in rear will drop to red.
Berth track for an auto which reads over an AHB, I can think of plenty of examples. A few without replacement facilities as well.

Okay you'll have to talk the driver passed the signal in rear, but care still needs to be taken.

"Platform 1 your Maesteg service. Platform 1A your Aberdare. Platform 2 your London!"
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TCF with a level crossing? 25/02/2018 at 10:08 #106149
kbarber
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clive in post 106140 said:
Stephen Fulcher in post 106124 said:
Special care has to be taken with AHBs as a lot of them are not interlocked with the normal signalling system, so if their tracks fail the Signaller will see a fault with the crossing but the signals could still clear.
Huh? If a track circuit fails then the signal in rear will drop to red.
And of course there are AHBs on AB lines, so the existence of a TC is by no means guaranteed.

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TCF with a level crossing? 25/02/2018 at 14:55 #106155
Chromatix
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In which case there is no TC to fail, is there?

I believe such AHBs (and AOCLs) are activated by treadles, so are not dependent on the existence of a TC. It's possible for the treadle to fail, and the signalman would have to respond when a report of such came in, but that's a separate problem from a failed TC.

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TCF with a level crossing? 25/02/2018 at 15:51 #106157
Late Turn
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AHBs on AB lines generally (always?) have their own track circuits to supplement the treadles, though - if one of those fails, it'll fail the crossing but won't give any indication at either signal box nor will it hold any signals at danger. I'm not sure whether the same applies on lines resignalled with axle counters - do any AHBs tend to retain track circuits working independently?
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TCF with a level crossing? 25/02/2018 at 21:00 #106164
headshot119
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Late Turn in post 106157 said:
AHBs on AB lines generally (always?) have their own track circuits to supplement the treadles, though - if one of those fails, it'll fail the crossing but won't give any indication at either signal box nor will it hold any signals at danger. I'm not sure whether the same applies on lines resignalled with axle counters - do any AHBs tend to retain track circuits working independently?
I've certainly seen scheme plans with track circuits supplementing axle counters at AHBs.

"Platform 1 your Maesteg service. Platform 1A your Aberdare. Platform 2 your London!"
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