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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 15:40 #120792
Phil-jmw
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6O47 stops at T345 Sig Pfm.1 Haywards Heath with the rear of its train still sitting on the points leading to the Dn Sdg North. I cleared T345 towards the spur for 6O47 to draw up and the loco detach and run fwd to the spur, which it did but in doing so had drawn the front of its train past T345, leaving the route stuck in towards the spur. I now have 0O47 trapped in the spur unable to run round its train.

Regards,

Phil.

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 15:46 #120793
headshot119
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Reported on Mantis.

A save game in this instance would be useful for some fault finding.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 15:55 #120794
TimTamToe
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Hi Karl,

I've had a quick look as I thought I'd reported this on the old Brighton, (as I know myself and a tester had spotted this for my 2012 tt) but I can't find anything on the forum (may have messaged Geoff personally a long time (years) ago).

The issue of the train being too long for the run round move crept in when Brighton moved from scroll to loader. So guessing a track circuit length was reduced. As a stop gap, I reduced the length of the train.

I'll probably have somewhere some saves from it cropping up on BTN..PM if you want them sending if they'll be of any use

Gareth

Last edited: 07/10/2019 at 15:57 by TimTamToe
Reason: None given

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 15:56 #120795
MarkC
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There are Notes attached to the timetable in regards to this
It's not my fault! I was left unsupervised.
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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 16:04 #120796
headshot119
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Phil-jmw in post 120792 said:
6O47 stops at T345 Sig Pfm.1 Haywards Heath with the rear of its train still sitting on the points leading to the Dn Sdg North. I cleared T345 towards the spur for 6O47 to draw up and the loco detach and run fwd to the spur, which it did but in doing so had drawn the front of its train past T345, leaving the route stuck in towards the spur. I now have 0O47 trapped in the spur unable to run round its train.

Regards,

Phil.
I suspect Phil that you didn't clear T345 until after 6O47 had come to a stand? I can only reproduce it that way round, and not if the route is set from T345 when it arrives.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 16:13 #120797
Phil-jmw
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I've recreated and saved it. 6O47 has just come to a stand at T345.
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Last edited: 07/10/2019 at 16:16 by Phil-jmw
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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 16:15 #120798
Phil-jmw
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headshot119 in post 120796 said:
Phil-jmw in post 120792 said:
6O47 stops at T345 Sig Pfm.1 Haywards Heath with the rear of its train still sitting on the points leading to the Dn Sdg North. I cleared T345 towards the spur for 6O47 to draw up and the loco detach and run fwd to the spur, which it did but in doing so had drawn the front of its train past T345, leaving the route stuck in towards the spur. I now have 0O47 trapped in the spur unable to run round its train.

Regards,

Phil.
I suspect Phil that you didn't clear T345 until after 6O47 had come to a stand? I can only reproduce it that way round, and not if the route is set from T345 when it arrives.
That's correct. He called up from T345 then I set the route to the spur.

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 16:25 #120800
Phil-jmw
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MarkC in post 120795 said:
There are Notes attached to the timetable in regards to this
Yes Mark, and they state that 6O47 needs to be signalled past T345 for the train to fit, which I did, and the train has stopped beyond T345 leaving the route stuck in towards the spur and the loco trapped therein.

Are we saying that T345 must be cleared before 6O47 comes to a stand for it to fit in clear both ends? Because if that is so then the notes need to say so.

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 16:41 #120801
GeoffM
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Phil-jmw in post 120800 said:
MarkC in post 120795 said:
There are Notes attached to the timetable in regards to this
Yes Mark, and they state that 6O47 needs to be signalled past T345 for the train to fit, which I did, and the train has stopped beyond T345 leaving the route stuck in towards the spur and the loco trapped therein.

Are we saying that T345 must be cleared before 6O47 comes to a stand for it to fit in clear both ends? Because if that is so then the notes need to say so.
Yes. The notes could be more clear, yes, though it does imply such. Mantis 27583.

[FWIW I've also tried it just now and believe it works correctly with T345 set first, which then shows proceed once the train enters the platform. In real life the loco is past T345 while it detaches as well].

SimSig Boss
Last edited: 07/10/2019 at 16:42 by GeoffM
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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 16:56 #120802
Phil-jmw
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GeoffM in post 120801 said:
Phil-jmw in post 120800 said:
MarkC in post 120795 said:
There are Notes attached to the timetable in regards to this
Yes Mark, and they state that 6O47 needs to be signalled past T345 for the train to fit, which I did, and the train has stopped beyond T345 leaving the route stuck in towards the spur and the loco trapped therein.

Are we saying that T345 must be cleared before 6O47 comes to a stand for it to fit in clear both ends? Because if that is so then the notes need to say so.
Yes. The notes could be more clear, yes, though it does imply such. Mantis 27583.

[FWIW I've also tried it just now and believe it works correctly with T345 set first, which then shows proceed once the train enters the platform. In real life the loco is past T345 while it detaches as well].
Thanks for clearing that up Geoff.

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 19:46 #120812
tjtbcork
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I've had no problem getting 6O47 to stop on the right place. The problem I'm having is after 0O47 runs into the shunt spur the route from T345 does not cancel leaving the route locked meaning I can't route 0O47 out of the spur.

Am I doing something wrong?

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 20:03 #120813
headshot119
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tjtbcork in post 120812 said:
I've had no problem getting 6O47 to stop on the right place. The problem I'm having is after 0O47 runs into the shunt spur the route from T345 does not cancel leaving the route locked meaning I can't route 0O47 out of the spur.

Am I doing something wrong?

Save attached.
Just to check did you use the 0000 start?

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 20:29 #120814
GeoffM
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From further investigation, tt would appear that while the sim is about right for both timetable and sim / track length, it is just too tight to guarantee that the train does stop in exactly the right place each time. Certainly, during testing, that train did get a lot of attention and it had a number of runs where it stopped in the correct place. We'll make adjustments.
SimSig Boss
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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 20:31 #120815
tjtbcork
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headshot119 in post 120813 said:
tjtbcork in post 120812 said:
I've had no problem getting 6O47 to stop on the right place. The problem I'm having is after 0O47 runs into the shunt spur the route from T345 does not cancel leaving the route locked meaning I can't route 0O47 out of the spur.

Am I doing something wrong?

Save attached.
Just to check did you use the 0000 start?

To confirm. 2019 TT with a 0000 start.

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 21:24 #120818
Meld
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Aaargh - the headaches back lol - I'll amend the note along with the other reports made when I get back in the UK late Wednesday.

Note - The return working 6V60 needs to be treated in the same way

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 07/10/2019 at 23:56 #120823
Tempest Malice
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Investigating this (reloading the sim just before 6O47 passes copyhold junction a few times (not that the retrying actually made much difference)), I've finally noticed something on the third try; The version of 6O47 seeding in the 4am start has a Far end exact + 180m stop position, but the version entering at 3am from the 00:00 start has a NX+180 stop position. Given that 6V60 uses a FX stop I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this explains why the midnight start seems to be suffering worse for this issue.
Last edited: 07/10/2019 at 23:58 by Tempest Malice
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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 08/10/2019 at 06:14 #120825
geswedey
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Agreed
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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 08/10/2019 at 15:20 #120828
headshot119
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Tempest Malice in post 120823 said:
Investigating this (reloading the sim just before 6O47 passes copyhold junction a few times (not that the retrying actually made much difference)), I've finally noticed something on the third try; The version of 6O47 seeding in the 4am start has a Far end exact + 180m stop position, but the version entering at 3am from the 00:00 start has a NX+180 stop position. Given that 6V60 uses a FX stop I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this explains why the midnight start seems to be suffering worse for this issue.
This was picked up in the original report, but thank you.

The issue is in hand and it should be sorted for an update in the next few days.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 11/10/2019 at 20:41 #120919
Meld
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I'm pretty sure that the issue only occurs in the 0000 start, and yes it has been addressed for the next update.

If however you can't wait for the update all you have to do is change the stopping position of 6O47 to FX as opposed to the NX position .

Apologies to you all for this one - while testing for the original release I was playing around with the stopping positions and this re-edit slipped through the net

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 12/10/2019 at 20:40 #120965
ajax103
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GeoffM in post 120801 said:
Phil-jmw in post 120800 said:
MarkC in post 120795 said:
There are Notes attached to the timetable in regards to this
Yes Mark, and they state that 6O47 needs to be signalled past T345 for the train to fit, which I did, and the train has stopped beyond T345 leaving the route stuck in towards the spur and the loco trapped therein.

Are we saying that T345 must be cleared before 6O47 comes to a stand for it to fit in clear both ends? Because if that is so then the notes need to say so.
Yes. The notes could be more clear, yes, though it does imply such. Mantis 27583.

[FWIW I've also tried it just now and believe it works correctly with T345 set first, which then shows proceed once the train enters the platform. In real life the loco is past T345 while it detaches as well].
One thing I'm not sure if it's standard practice or not and bearing in mind I did exactly what is advised above however...

when 0O47 comes out of Down Siding North to couple onto 6O47, it locks up the point work at the north end of Platform 1 so you cannot set the route to go to Ardingly but I found a workaround which I'm not sure is used by local signallers.

I told the driver to propel back towards the shunt spur (reverse direction from Up to Down) so 6O47 was fully behind T344 after which the driver had stopped and I was able to then set the route onto the branch.

Is this usual practice? I'm running a 2009 00:00 TT with the 2000 era, just thought I ask as I'm not moaning just curious to see what others think???

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 12/10/2019 at 20:45 #120967
Meld
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Doh looks like I'm gonna have to play with the stopping positions again
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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 12/10/2019 at 21:20 #120970
ajax103
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Meld in post 120967 said:
Doh looks like I'm gonna have to play with the stopping positions again
Apologies for giving you more work, I did look here first to check prior to 6O47 arriving at Haywards Heath and I've now got the train on the branch however I probably have to do that trick again for it's return journey.

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2019 TT 6O47 Too Long For Haywards Heath Pfm.1 Yesterday at 16:04 #120992
oldman
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Hi all, after intense testing the problem is this and the return working are too long for the drawn sections, I believe this is in hand.
As a safe and acceptable work-round, easiest way at the mo is the have train near end stop +24m, don't clear route to headshunt, have points locked, wait for train to stop, authorise train to pass signal, the rest of the sequence works fine.

AS reported earlier testing brought up this error and the fine tuning of the sim is still ongoing,

Thanks

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