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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 09/10/2019 at 18:02 #120856
headshot119
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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09

This thread is for discussion of the Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 timetable.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 10/10/2019 at 13:13 #120876
Hilton Junction
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Firstly I'll apologise if this should have been a stand alone thread.

I'm running the 2019 timetable & have train 6O47 in P1 at Haywards Heath. The loco was signalled ahead of signal T345 per the timetable notes. The Light Engine has detached & is in the spur waiting to run round & re-couple.

Hopefully my save has attached correctly & you will be able to see that I cannot set the route for the engine to run round due to the track remaining set from signal T345 across the points giving access to Down Siding South. I manually cancelled the route from T345 but the track will not drop out to allow me to shunt the engine. I've run the sim forward to 04:37 & the track still will not drop out.

Am I doing something wrong or will this need a fix?

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 10/10/2019 at 13:20 #120877
Edgemaster
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Hilton Junction in post 120876 said:
Firstly I'll apologise if this should have been a stand alone thread.

I'm running the 2019 timetable & have train 6O47 in P1 at Haywards Heath. The loco was signalled ahead of signal T345 per the timetable notes. The Light Engine has detached & is in the spur waiting to run round & re-couple.

Hopefully my save has attached correctly & you will be able to see that I cannot set the route for the engine to run round due to the track remaining set from signal T345 across the points giving access to Down Siding South. I manually cancelled the route from T345 but the track will not drop out to allow me to shunt the engine. I've run the sim forward to 04:37 & the track still will not drop out.

Am I doing something wrong or will this need a fix?
This has already been noted in another thread, the issue is with getting the train to stop in exactly the right place with the loco beyond the platform starter, and the wagons in the platform with enough space for the loco to rejoin at rear. It's a tight move in reality, but SimSig seems to have some variation between runs where the train exactly stops. Some fiddling is being done with the next version of the timetable and sim to ensure this happens reliably.

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 13/10/2019 at 14:31 #120985
Phil-jmw
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I'm not sure if this is a timetable bug or a sim bug, but Lewes - Brighton trains schedules are not stepping beyond Falmer. I noticed this with 2L75 and 2C77 when the ECS's they were meant to form from Brighton to Lovers Walk became overdue and I noticed they hadn't made their booked attachments at Brighton because they were still showing at Falmer. I now have 5C75 approaching Brighton but still showing next location Falmer. I've attached a save.

Regards,

Phil.

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 13/10/2019 at 15:13 #120988
Meld
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Phil-jmw in post 120985 said:
I'm not sure if this is a timetable bug or a sim bug, but Lewes - Brighton trains schedules are not stepping beyond Falmer. I noticed this with 2L75 and 2C77 when the ECS's they were meant to form from Brighton to Lovers Walk became overdue and I noticed they hadn't made their booked attachments at Brighton because they were still showing at Falmer. I now have 5C75 approaching Brighton but still showing next location Falmer. I've attached a save.

Regards,

Phil.
https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/50160?page=2 last few posts on this page - there was an update yesterday to correct this sim version 1.2

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 13/10/2019 at 15:31 #120989
Phil-jmw
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Meld in post 120988 said:
Phil-jmw in post 120985 said:
I'm not sure if this is a timetable bug or a sim bug, but Lewes - Brighton trains schedules are not stepping beyond Falmer. I noticed this with 2L75 and 2C77 when the ECS's they were meant to form from Brighton to Lovers Walk became overdue and I noticed they hadn't made their booked attachments at Brighton because they were still showing at Falmer. I now have 5C75 approaching Brighton but still showing next location Falmer. I've attached a save.

Regards,

Phil.
https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/50160?page=2 last few posts on this page - there was an update yesterday to correct this sim version 1.2
Ah ok, thanks. I started a new sim yesterday afternoon after the Thursday/Friday update to V1.1 and that was still live on my PC. I didn't realise another update to sim version 2.2 had been issued later.

Regards,

Phil.

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 13/10/2019 at 15:55 #120991
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I've just updated to sim v2.2, but I see that the 2019 TT has not been updated with the correct max train speeds for 3Q03, 3Q22 and 3Q25, which I mentioned in an earlier post shortly after the sim was released, link here :- https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/50171?postId=120768

These trains are Ultrasonic Test Units (UTU's) and having checked the diagrams these trains are recording throughout all or nearly all of their time in the sim (3Q22 has a couple of very short transits between recording runs) so the max train speed for all three trains (5 schedules in total) needs amending from 90mph to 30mph, which is the maximum safe speed for the ultrasonic roller search units. Much faster than that and the RSU tyres can shred and the RSU's become damaged, and they are expensive to replace. I've checked the timings and they all match the timings we work to for 30mph recording.

I'm not sure what the 1Qxx's are, but they can't be UTU's as they are described because UTU's do not run Cl.1. They are also shown formed of T&T 73's but UTU's rarely run like this, except where there are restrictions on 37's. We normally run with a 37 and DBSO. for these reasons I suspect they could be PLPR or track geometry trains, which can run at 90mph, not the 75mph shown in the TT.

Regards,

Phil.

Last edited: 13/10/2019 at 16:03 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 13/10/2019 at 16:22 #120993
JamesN
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If it’s 2009 would the 1Qxx workings be the Euroscout track recording DMU? I’m sure that’s what I had them down as in the 15th Oct 2009 VicC timetable...
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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 13/10/2019 at 16:26 #120995
Phil-jmw
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JamesN in post 120993 said:
If it’s 2009 would the 1Qxx workings be the Euroscout track recording DMU? I’m sure that’s what I had them down as in the 15th Oct 2009 VicC timetable...
This is the 2019 TT James.

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 13/10/2019 at 16:38 #120996
JamesN
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Phil-jmw in post 120995 said:
JamesN in post 120993 said:
If it’s 2009 would the 1Qxx workings be the Euroscout track recording DMU? I’m sure that’s what I had them down as in the 15th Oct 2009 VicC timetable...
This is the 2019 TT James.
Yes sorry I’m being thick. Too many early mornings!

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 16/10/2019 at 00:15 #121072
ajax103
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Not sure if this is a bug or not but at then moment I have 8Y93 at T481 signal with the route set by the ARS into Platform 3 bearing in mind it's timetabled to use Platform 2 between 01:55 and 02:17 before heading to Reigate to reverse.

The only reason I can see this happening is because the ARS has given priority to 9W04 about to pass T212 with the route set though Redhill on the Down Main, is it a ARS error or is the ARS actually intelligent to see that the booked route isn't available and it just sets a route into a platform that is available?

The driver was sat at the signal so I took the opportunity to put the signal back, I only wish I could tell the driver I was going to do it before provided he was stopped.

Also at South Croydon, the ARS prefers to put 3S91 into Platform 3 at South Croydon from Oxted despite the fact that it's booked to reverse in Platform 4 to head to Redhill and there's no infrastructure to allow this from Platform 3.

Lastly but not so much a bug but a question for Geoff and co who know the sim and area but what's the speed limits for trains from Tonbridge to London via Redhill using the though lines?

It's a learning curve with Three Bridges but one I'm glad I have!

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 16/10/2019 at 00:25 #121073
GeoffM
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8Y93 confuses ARS because it runs all over the place and the slightest hiccup causes it to reinitialise, perhaps to the wrong section of its journey. It happens in real life too. Best to just run it manually. I have heard of real life signallers marking off its runs on a scrap of paper so they remember where to route it when it next runs through their area the same night.

ARS, again in real life, does not replatform usually. It will "follow" a portion booked to join in another platform, but since not all vehicles are suitable for all platforms, it's not a good idea to just let ARS re-platform. There are places where it does happen though, but not very common.

Sectional Appendices are publicly available on Network Rail's website for linespeeds.

SimSig Boss
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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 16/10/2019 at 00:36 #121074
Meld
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GeoffM in post 121073 said:
8Y93 confuses ARS because it runs all over the place and the slightest hiccup causes it to reinitialise, perhaps to the wrong section of its journey. It happens in real life too. Best to just run it manually. I have heard of real life signallers marking off its runs on a scrap of paper so they remember where to route it when it next runs through their area the same night.

ARS, again in real life, does not replatform usually. It will "follow" a portion booked to join in another platform, but since not all vehicles are suitable for all platforms, it's not a good idea to just let ARS re-platform. There are places where it does happen though, but not very common.

Sectional Appendices are publicly available on Network Rail's website for linespeeds.
Maybe I should do the same as I did with Sandhills - Non ARS on entry

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 18/10/2019 at 21:48 #121162
AlexH
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So I have a slightly novel problem.

There was an error in the split at Redhill with 1R12, with the portions going the wrong way with ARS. I corrected by reverting the timetable, even though I suppose it should be smart enough to figure it out. The F2 window showed the train standing at a totally different signal. I didn't manage to snap shot it. But shortly before the error (first picture) showed up.

The second issue is as follows: 1R14 seems to be an empty train - there's no train assigned to it, but it's running?!

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 19/10/2019 at 05:34 #121166
Meld
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AlexH in post 121162 said:
So I have a slightly novel problem.

There was an error in the split at Redhill with 1R12, with the portions going the wrong way with ARS. I corrected by reverting the timetable, even though I suppose it should be smart enough to figure it out. The F2 window showed the train standing at a totally different signal. I didn't manage to snap shot it. But shortly before the error (first picture) showed up.

The second issue is as follows: 1R14 seems to be an empty train - there's no train assigned to it, but it's running?!
Strange - 1R12 (08:49/08:55) is definitely divide rear 1T12 (dep 08:55) in Plat 0 at Redhill so should have departed first not as your image shows, were you reversing something and possibly did the wrong service ???

As for 1R14 I havent got a clue at the moment- try making it ARS and see what happens.

A snapshot around 0830 would be more helpful if you have one

Last edited: 19/10/2019 at 06:12 by Meld
Reason: None given

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 19/10/2019 at 14:38 #121178
MarkC
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AlexH in post 121162 said:
So I have a slightly novel problem.

There was an error in the split at Redhill with 1R12, with the portions going the wrong way with ARS. I corrected by reverting the timetable, even though I suppose it should be smart enough to figure it out. The F2 window showed the train standing at a totally different signal. I didn't manage to snap shot it. But shortly before the error (first picture) showed up.

The second issue is as follows: 1R14 seems to be an empty train - there's no train assigned to it, but it's running?!
1R12 when it has divided does divide the correct way 1R12 at the southern end of P0 and 1T12 at the northern end both trains facing down, it seems the TD's has been interposed in the wrong place for 1T12, in this case all that was needed was to just swap the TD's around.

Looking at 1R14 it seems from what can be seen from the picture you have provided it seems that when you sorted out 1R12 and 1T12 you may have inadvertantly done so to the wrong train that train being 1R14, looking at the F2 list it shows 1T12 standing at signal T489 which is the signal at the southern end of P2 at Redhill and its last reported location is Stoats Nest Jn.

It's not my fault! I was left unsupervised.
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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 20/10/2019 at 10:36 #121205
kbarber
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It's all down to getting the right description in the right berth. Like the big railway, there's no link between what the train on the ground thinks it is and what description is put up for it (except on railways like Tyne & Wear Metro, where trains tell the system their description).

Wrong descriptions happen on the big railway as well. The old Fenchurch St box had a particular trap for the unwary that caused occasional chaos.

Fenchurch was worked by a SGE power frame (pretty-much identical to the Westinghouse L frame) and had no describers at all in the station area or to & from Limehouse (called Stepney East in those days). Limehouse was worked from a panel in the same box, by a second signalman. Prior to the Docklands Light Railway, 4 tracks from Fenchurch came down to 2 just London side of the station. From that point, 4-character train describers existed which described trains to Barking or (rarely) Bow Junction. As an aid to the signalman, there were 6 'set up' berths for each of the down slow & down fast. Practice was to fill those up in the quiet moments so it didn't have to be done when things were busy (a 2.5 minute interval in the peaks in those days!); as each train passed over the junction, it took the first description of the line it came from, which would transmit automatically to Barking as the train passed Gas Factory Junction.

Some people will already have seen the flaw. All was well as long as trains left Fenchurch on their booked line. And there was no particular problem if something was changed, so long as the Limehouse man was warned, he would have time to clear out some of the preset berths and put the right description in. The problem came if the Fenchurch man put a train down the line it wasn't booked on, and the Limehouse man didn't get that it had been done. That train would pick up the wrong description at Limehouse. As would every other following it. And no-one would know until the first train arrived at (usually) BK14 (I think it was), equivalent to UR149 in the LTS sim. At which point the driver of a set of East Ham cars would find the route set for the main line or vice versa. By the time he had phoned Barking box, and Barking had phoned Fenchurch (conversation better imagined... we're in the East End here, remember!!!) there could easily be 10 or a dozen wrong-described trains approaching. And every one would have to be stopped at BK14 to be asked its description (the days of waiting 2 minutes before phoning the signalman...) before it could be sent on its way. Not only that, East Ham cars required a shunters' release, so if that wasn't given immediately on asking there would be yet more delay before things moved on.

Yet we ran high-90s% right time, and once even managed 100% right time int he evening peak (that one got a letter of congratulations from the Divisional Manager himself).

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 20/10/2019 at 10:51 #121206
postal
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@Keith

As part of the Berwick Literary Festival, I had a guided tour round a book printers in Berwick on Friday. I have to say it was fascinating. Part of their business is assisting authors who wish to self-publish (vanity publishing is now apparently a phrase which has been cast into the outer darkness). When you write the book, I can pass on the details if you require.

"No question is too stupid, there are just some stupid answers" - Dr. Michael Reece, 12/08/1927 - 03/06/2019. Electrical engineer and inventor
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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 20/10/2019 at 11:16 #121207
bri2808
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Cant see this being discussed anywhere else, but its all gone wrong for me at Tattenham Corner. I currently have two trains in platform one. One is 2Y03 and the other is 5P05. In the train list it says each is blocking the other. I have attached a save for viewing if that helps but any advice to resolve it would be great.

Thanks

Brian

To add: They came out as 2 trains from the up siding where they were seeded... When I cleared signal from siding they came over as a pair

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Last edited: 20/10/2019 at 11:48 by bri2808
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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 20/10/2019 at 12:52 #121208
y10g9
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Having had a look through your ssg, 2Y03 and 5P05 were both still sat in the Up Sidings. 2Y03 facing the Up direction, 5P05 facing the down.
On opening the sim, you've got no occupation of P1 at Tattenham Corner, just 2Y03 interposed into the platform berth and a route set out towards Tadworth

Have you got a Snapshot save from 0540 so I can run the ECS into Tattenham Corner and see what happens?

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 20/10/2019 at 13:10 #121209
bri2808
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y10g9 in post 121208 said:
Having had a look through your ssg, 2Y03 and 5P05 were both still sat in the Up Sidings. 2Y03 facing the Up direction, 5P05 facing the down.
On opening the sim, you've got no occupation of P1 at Tattenham Corner, just 2Y03 interposed into the platform berth and a route set out towards Tadworth

Have you got a Snapshot save from 0540 so I can run the ECS into Tattenham Corner and see what happens?
So I put the route out of Platform 1 and interposed one to try and get it going. But it didn't work out

I am afraid no snapshot of 05:40 _ However, a train did make its way to the platform - When seeding, they all divided and then should have made their way at the right time to the platform but that doesn't appear to have happened

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 21/10/2019 at 09:34 #121225
AlexH
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I'm kicking myself because I lost the screenshot where, even when I realised what had happened, the F2 menu reported the train which was correctly in Reigate but incorrectly labelled was actually at the dummy on the fast line at Earlswood. I could not convince it that it was in Reigate. Unfortunately the screenshot got lost.

However, I now realise what had happened and rectified.

But, I would say, I didn't reverse anything, I did nothing untoward to it. I let it do it with ARS and it all ended up going Pete Tong. In fact, it did it a few times.

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 17/11/2019 at 16:27 #121738
Javelin395
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Currently up to just after 8.00am with this very hectic timetable and have come across an issue with 2A11. This train does not pull up to the buffers in Redhill P1 and subsequently blocks the Reading lines and UP Redhill.

Reloaded sim then abandoned timetable for 2A11. This caused it to run up to buffers but it doesn't fit behind signal T493. Consequently 3W90 is unable to access P0 as per its schedule.

Loader v4.15.1
Sim v1.2 (2018-2019 era)
TT v1.1

Saves available if required.

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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 17/11/2019 at 16:36 #121740
y10g9
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Yes please on a save, makes it a lot quicker to help identify what is going on
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Three Bridges SX 2019 01 09 17/11/2019 at 17:58 #121744
Javelin395
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Attached save has 2A11 already routed into Redhill P1 courtesy of ARS. Wondering if the fact it is timetable into Redhill P1A has anything to do with it not pulling up to buffer stops ? Still, that won't solve the issue of it still overhanging T493 once it has abandoned TT and drawn up to buffers.

Can also attach save after abandoning TT and shunting up to buffers with rear of train overhanging T493 if required.

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