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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020

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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 21/06/2020 at 06:42 #127735
phil1044
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020
-----------------------------
This is the latest in my now traditional 5 day (Mon-Fri) timetables, and has been submitted for authorisation.

Notes on the Timetable
==================
Trains : 2301
Rules : 718
Decisions : 8

This timetable is based on January-March 2020, and should be run in 2014 mode.

This is a Mon-Fri timeatble, with the day chosen randomly. Many trains (escpecially freight) do not run on a daily basis, which gives a different scenario each time the simulation is run.

All platforming at Victoria is as per the WTT although a couple of amendments have had to made where there were clashes.
Rules have been applied to stop sets returning earlier than is possible when the oubound train is late or in times of disruption.
Rules as well as dwell and turnaround times are as per Network Rail's Rules Of The Route document.

ARS Notes:
=========
ARS gives priority to 2Bxx at Balham on Up slow lines over 2Kxx off up Streatham line.
ARS gives priority to 2Fxx at Crystal Palace over 9Bxx departing from plat 5.
ARS gives priority to 2Bxx at Steatham North Jn over 1Ixx booked first.
ARS gives priority to 9Oxx at Streatham South Jn over 1Ixx booked first
You will need to be wary of booked times and paths to the above services to avoid delays.

ARS will not interpose where there is a decision/choice to be made of trains when reversing at Victoria and Epsom Downs.
ARS will not interpose where a class 5 train reverses at Victoria
These trains will have to be interposed manually.

ECS Movements:
=============
ECS trains often get priority over trains booked to run ahead of it. Its a good idea to make ECS services non-ARS and deal with them manually.
ECS trains can often disrupt the timetable especially so when they run early, this is especially noticable at Streatham Hill when the timetable begins, where there is a few conflicts in the timings of sets going back to the Shed or to the Down Sidings. Be wary of these trains as they can delay last passnger trains of the day while they make the shunting and reversing moves at Streatham Hill.

Freight :
======
All freight trains times are from the official cif files, consists are checked with trains that have ran during the period of the timetable (January-March 2020). Checks have been made as to what days trains actually ran historically, and the decisions of DOTW (Day of the week) is based on this imformation.
99% of the Freight trains in this timetable only run on certain days, which will give adifferernt scenario each time the Sim is run.

Warning :
=======
Just an advisory note that there is a warning which pops up a couple of times when the timetable is being run.. I belive that it is an ARS fault but doesnt cause any issues with the timetable and can be ignored.
The warning says "Internal error : PBK01 contains non-visible items in this era : B0563"
If Geoff or any of the mods can enlighten me how this can be corrected please get in touch. This has been reported on Mantis.

Thanks :
========
Thanks go to Geoff Mayo for creating SimSig in the first place, and for the developing of Victoria Central
Thanks also to Chris Law for assistance with the cif filles

Please PM me if you find any faults or errors as with the radomness involved in the timetable its not possible to check every scenario thoroughly.

I hope you enjoy this challenging timetable as much as I have compiling it.

Timetable written by Phil Hodgson (Phil1044)

Initial Release v1 (Version 1)
21 June 2020

Last edited: 21/06/2020 at 06:52 by phil1044
Reason: None given

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Victoria Central an-Mar 2020 21/06/2020 at 07:00 #127736
Chrisrail
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Looking forward to it matey
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Victoria Central an-Mar 2020 21/06/2020 at 09:57 #127741
ajax103
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I look forward to it too, hope you're doing a London Bridge timetable to chain with this one
Last edited: 21/06/2020 at 10:00 by ajax103
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Victoria Central an-Mar 2020 21/06/2020 at 13:11 #127759
DriverCurran
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Ajax

The London Bridge version of this timetable (If an attempt to write it was made) would not function.

Where for instance is Brunswick Court Junction on the London Bridge Sim?

Paul

You have to get a red before you can get any other colour
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Victoria Central an-Mar 2020 21/06/2020 at 14:13 #127761
phil1044
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Ha ha yea hopefully. One at a time !
Having a rest now.

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Victoria Central an-Mar 2020 21/06/2020 at 17:46 #127765
phil1044
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Can one of the Admins please change the title of this thread to Victoria Central Jan -Mar 2020. Typo on my part. Thanks.
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 21/06/2020 at 18:42 #127767
GeoffM
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phil1044 in post 127765 said:
Can one of the Admins please change the title of this thread to Victoria Central Jan -Mar 2020. Typo on my part. Thanks.
Done.

SimSig Boss
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 21/06/2020 at 21:14 #127768
phil1044
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Cheers Geoff
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 21/06/2020 at 21:57 #127769
ajax103
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DriverCurran in post 127759 said:
Ajax

The London Bridge version of this timetable (If an attempt to write it was made) would not function.

Where for instance is Brunswick Court Junction on the London Bridge Sim?

Paul
I don't know as I have no idea where that junction is.

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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 21/06/2020 at 22:17 #127770
Phil-jmw
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DriverCurran in post 127759 said:
Ajax

The London Bridge version of this timetable (If an attempt to write it was made) would not function.

Where for instance is Brunswick Court Junction on the London Bridge Sim?

Paul
Brunswick Court Junction is the group of crossovers located 30 chains east of London Bridge station, in the vicinity of the connection from the Eastern to the Central side.

Phil.

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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 21/06/2020 at 23:55 #127771
GeoffM
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Phil-jmw in post 127770 said:
DriverCurran in post 127759 said:
Ajax

The London Bridge version of this timetable (If an attempt to write it was made) would not function.

Where for instance is Brunswick Court Junction on the London Bridge Sim?

Paul
Brunswick Court Junction is the group of crossovers located 30 chains east of London Bridge station, in the vicinity of the connection from the Eastern to the Central side.

Phil.
I believe Paul is referring to the fact that the sim does not have it, being the ASC layout, not the resignalled/current layout. I'd be concerned about his ability to do his job if he didn't know where that junction is!

SimSig Boss
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 22/06/2020 at 00:52 #127772
Phil-jmw
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GeoffM in post 127771 said:
Phil-jmw in post 127770 said:
DriverCurran in post 127759 said:
Ajax

The London Bridge version of this timetable (If an attempt to write it was made) would not function.

Where for instance is Brunswick Court Junction on the London Bridge Sim?

Paul
Brunswick Court Junction is the group of crossovers located 30 chains east of London Bridge station, in the vicinity of the connection from the Eastern to the Central side.

Phil.
I believe Paul is referring to the fact that the sim does not have it, being the ASC layout, not the resignalled/current layout. I'd be concerned about his ability to do his job if he didn't know where that junction is!
Ah, my apologies for the misunderstanding Geoff. To be honest I didn't know where it was until last Thursday night when I was out with a UTU in the London Bridge area as it wasn't a timing location (for our trains) before the resignalling. We used to test from the station but now we test to and from the Brunswick Court Jn crossovers on the South London lines (the platforms will be pedestrian-tested).

Last edited: 22/06/2020 at 00:53 by Phil-jmw
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 22/06/2020 at 01:07 #127773
Phil-jmw
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Phil-jmw in post 127772 said:
GeoffM in post 127771 said:
Phil-jmw in post 127770 said:
DriverCurran in post 127759 said:
Ajax

The London Bridge version of this timetable (If an attempt to write it was made) would not function.

Where for instance is Brunswick Court Junction on the London Bridge Sim?

Paul
Brunswick Court Junction is the group of crossovers located 30 chains east of London Bridge station, in the vicinity of the connection from the Eastern to the Central side.

Phil.
I believe Paul is referring to the fact that the sim does not have it, being the ASC layout, not the resignalled/current layout. I'd be concerned about his ability to do his job if he didn't know where that junction is!
Ah, my apologies for the misunderstanding Geoff. To be honest I didn't know where it was until last Thursday night when I was out with a UTU in the London Bridge area as it wasn't a timing location (for our trains) before the resignalling. We used to test from the station but now we test to and from the Brunswick Court Jn crossovers on the South London lines (the platforms will be pedestrian-tested).

Last edited: 22/06/2020 at 01:12 by Phil-jmw
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 22/06/2020 at 01:24 #127774
Phil-jmw
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Phil-jmw in post 127773 said:
Phil-jmw in post 127772 said:
GeoffM in post 127771 said:
Phil-jmw in post 127770 said:
DriverCurran in post 127759 said:
Ajax

The London Bridge version of this timetable (If an attempt to write it was made) would not function.

Where for instance is Brunswick Court Junction on the London Bridge Sim?

Paul
Brunswick Court Junction is the group of crossovers located 30 chains east of London Bridge station, in the vicinity of the connection from the Eastern to the Central side.

Phil.
I believe Paul is referring to the fact that the sim does not have it, being the ASC layout, not the resignalled/current layout. I'd be concerned about his ability to do his job if he didn't know where that junction is!
Ah, my apologies for the misunderstanding Geoff. To be honest I didn't know where it was until last Thursday night when I was out with a UTU in the London Bridge area as it wasn't a timing location (for our trains) before the resignalling. We used to test from the station but now we test to and from the Brunswick Court Jn crossovers on the South London lines (the platforms will be pedestrian-tested).
There is another new junction not currently shown on the sim, Old Kent Road Junction, between South Bermondsey and Queens Road Peckham.

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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 22/06/2020 at 02:11 #127775
DriverCurran
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GeoffM in post 127771 said:
Phil-jmw in post 127770 said:
DriverCurran in post 127759 said:
Ajax

The London Bridge version of this timetable (If an attempt to write it was made) would not function.

Where for instance is Brunswick Court Junction on the London Bridge Sim?

Paul
Brunswick Court Junction is the group of crossovers located 30 chains east of London Bridge station, in the vicinity of the connection from the Eastern to the Central side.

Phil.
I believe Paul is referring to the fact that the sim does not have it, being the ASC layout, not the resignalled/current layout. I'd be concerned about his ability to do his job if he didn't know where that junction is!
Indeed Geoff, although it would be messy I do 'wonder' if with a lot of user intervention a timetable could possibly be shoehorned to fit. And no that is not an offer to attempt it....

You have to get a red before you can get any other colour
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 22/06/2020 at 06:24 #127778
GeoffM
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Phil-jmw in post 127774 said:
There is another new junction not currently shown on the sim, Old Kent Road Junction, between South Bermondsey and Queens Road Peckham.
It is in the 2010 [onwards] era, though I believe not in service until 2012. It was there before the main resignalling anyway. The Vic SE sim also supports it, though not shown as it's off-screen.

SimSig Boss
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 22/06/2020 at 08:41 #127779
Meld
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DriverCurran in post 127775 said:

Indeed Geoff, although it would be messy I do 'wonder' if with a lot of user intervention a timetable could possibly be shoehorned to fit. And no that is not an offer to attempt it....
Paul - Shoehorn isnt the correct term for this one - it was looked at during development and major surgery is nearer the mark

Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 22/06/2020 at 11:52 #127785
DriverCurran
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Lol. I can imagine
You have to get a red before you can get any other colour
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 22/06/2020 at 18:27 #127799
Phil-jmw
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GeoffM in post 127778 said:
Phil-jmw in post 127774 said:
There is another new junction not currently shown on the sim, Old Kent Road Junction, between South Bermondsey and Queens Road Peckham.
It is in the 2010 [onwards] era, though I believe not in service until 2012. It was there before the main resignalling anyway. The Vic SE sim also supports it, though not shown as it's off-screen.
Sorry Geoff, I hadn't spotted that. I am currently running the 2009 TT with the pre-2010 era.

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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 26/06/2020 at 12:34 #128082
VInce
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Running in 2014 era, with full ARS trying to learnt he sim and the timetable at the same time.

2O90 0013 Victoria - East Croydon.

For reasons I can't ascertain, at Balham, ARS sets a route via Streatham Hill and not along the Down Brighton Slow. Driver correctly calls wrong route.

This happened under both the old loader and the new. The timetable looks OK to me but I don't really know it well yet.

Additionally - 5F75 0032 Streatham Hill - Streatham Hill Shed may need a "D" departure depending on your point of view...


Vince

I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
Last edited: 26/06/2020 at 12:43 by VInce
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 26/06/2020 at 17:41 #128117
phil1044
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Thanks for that Vince.
I hadn't noticed the wrong routing for 2O90 despite a lot of testing of the early hours, I'll have a look at it, but it may be an ARS issue.
5F75 as you say will need a 'd'. I must have missed that as I normally allow this in the vast majority of ECS trains.

Last edited: 26/06/2020 at 17:44 by phil1044
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 26/06/2020 at 19:25 #128134
VInce
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phil1044 in post 128117 said:
Thanks for that Vince.
I hadn't noticed the wrong routing for 2O90 despite a lot of testing of the early hours, I'll have a look at it, but it may be an ARS issue.
5F75 as you say will need a 'd'. I must have missed that as I normally allow this in the vast majority of ECS trains.
Thanks Phil.

Its a geographical area I don't know well so I don't really know what the line codes are at the moment - except by guesswork. Its fun learning a new one though and I run in normal time, no incidents and delays and with full ARS. Its the only time I use ARS anywhere, like my old friend Phil-jmw. I think its the best way to learn a new one and not to rush it. The fun really starts when you're confident enough to run with heavy delays and incidents turned on though.

I only ever write heritage timetables and I come from a era when everything except Class 1 and 2 trains generally departed when signals were cleared for them. In my timetables I always give ECS and freights a chance to leave early in the same way as you. In the WTTs of that era that I use there are no times given for unit shunts and the like so as I just leave the times blank so as the time they stand is the time needed for the reversal. It was an era which relied heavily on the signallers geographical knowledge and judgement and with much less adherence to the niceties of the WTT.

If I could change only one aspect of Simsig it would be to give the user the option to allow all trains except Class 1 and 2 to leave when the signal was cleared. Currently the "d" is a bit of a lottery as it may or may not work but its the only way it can be done. There may be improvements in that area in new loader but I haven't used it enough to form an opinion yet.

I'm really enjoying a modern day timetable which allows for this - thank you. So many just simply download the CIF file and think that's the work done. I like very much the real world allowances for trains running late to a terminus off sim and providing a rule for the late running of the return working.

All in all its an excellent timetable - well done.

I'm only up to 0500 at the moment (real-time remember!) and its just getting busy!

Regards,

Vince

I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
Last edited: 26/06/2020 at 19:34 by VInce
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 26/06/2020 at 19:34 #128135
GeoffM
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VInce in post 128134 said:
If I could change only one aspect of Simsig it would be to give the user the option to allow all trains except Class 1 and 2 to leave when the signal was cleared. Currently the "d" is a bit of a lottery as it may or may not work but its the only way it can be done.
"d" is random, not a case of may or may not be working.

However, there are plans afoot to change the set down and must leave on time (and others) into a simpler system, more flexible and user-defined, while being backward compatible.

SimSig Boss
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 26/06/2020 at 19:41 #128136
VInce
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GeoffM in post 128135 said:
VInce in post 128134 said:
If I could change only one aspect of Simsig it would be to give the user the option to allow all trains except Class 1 and 2 to leave when the signal was cleared. Currently the "d" is a bit of a lottery as it may or may not work but its the only way it can be done.
"d" is random, not a case of may or may not be working.

However, there are plans afoot to change the set down and must leave on time (and others) into a simpler system, more flexible and user-defined, while being backward compatible.
Thanks Geoff - I perhaps didn't express my thoughts correctly. I was aware it was random and I was trying to say that using the "d" doesn't necessarily mean the train will leave early. It might or it might not.
I'm pleased to hear improvements in this are being considered, it would make it all the more realistic as far as I'm concerned.

I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
Last edited: 26/06/2020 at 19:43 by VInce
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Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 26/06/2020 at 20:40 #128139
VInce
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I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
Last edited: 27/06/2020 at 09:33 by VInce
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