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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 10/11/2020 at 13:01 #133763
whatlep
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As I have (again) rather more time on my hands than expected, the various "heritage" timetables for Manchester are getting checked and enhanced where necessary to take advantage of revised location data/ routes introduced with the ARS version of Piccadilly.

Westhoughton (Metal Box) trip freights are being added where information is available. I am so far only missing data for 1993: if anyone has the information, please message me! Arrangements for loco changes in Longsight DGL and light electric loco moves into Longsight depot will also get attention where appropriate.

Watch the Downloads section for new versions. Current revisions are:
1991 - V2.1: available for download
1996 - V2.1: submitted to Mods for approval
Both those timetables can be used with ARS enabled, though it isn't recommended.

1989 will be next up, probably followed in reverse date order from 1977 (because it's my favourite timetable!) to 1969.

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 13/11/2020 at 13:39 #133818
whatlep
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Small update as of 13/11/2020

1991 & 1996 V2.1 available for download
1993 - need information on Westhoughton trips before update possible
1989 - Northern Part V3.1 available for download
1989 - Whole Picture V3.1 with Mods for approval
1989 - Southern Part does not need updates, so remains at the currently available release, V3.0

Work now starts on the 1977 timetables.

Last edited: 13/11/2020 at 13:40 by whatlep
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 13/11/2020 at 15:03 #133819
jc92
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whatlep in post 133818 said:

1993 - need information on Westhoughton trips before update possible
I've got a 1992 trip notice with these in. When did Westhoughton Metalbox GF sneak into the Sim?

I'll sort out the details and PM you when I get a chance.

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 14/11/2020 at 18:43 #133863
jc92
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Details attached


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"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 14/11/2020 at 23:46 #133869
whatlep
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jc92 in post 133819 said:
whatlep in post 133818 said:

1993 - need information on Westhoughton trips before update possible
I've got a 1992 trip notice with these in. When did Westhoughton Metalbox GF sneak into the Sim?

I'll sort out the details and PM you when I get a chance.
Thank you! I think Westhoughton was one of several changes made in the ARS release. I'll confess I hadn't noticed it for several weeks either! Starting to wonder what else I might have missed....

EDIT - seems a most odd and expensive way of doing the trip. Light engine move Westhoughton-Manchester in the morning and back again in the afternoon. Still, makes for more fun moves in SimSig....

Last edited: 14/11/2020 at 23:49 by whatlep
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 16/11/2020 at 23:21 #133926
whatlep
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Update as of 17/11/2020

1991 & 1996 V2.1 available for download
1993 - V3.0 submitted to the Mods for approval (*)
1989 - Northern Part V3.1 available for download
1989 - Whole Picture V3.1 available for download
1989 - Southern Part does not need updates, so remains at the currently available release, V3.0
1977 - Summer Saturday does not need updates, so remains at the currently available release, V2.0
1977 - Summer Weekday V2.1 submitted to Mods for approval

(*) - 1993 has been revised both to add new trains and to enable full ARS use, though this is not recommended. Testing of the 1990s' simulations suggests that ARS can work OK on the lines from Ordsall Lane northwards, with the exception of the Westhoughton trip. Between Piccadilly and Manchester Airport, ARS appears to introduce as many problems as it solves, as detailed in the timetable notes.

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 21/11/2020 at 00:56 #134010
whatlep
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Quick update as of 20/11/2020

All "heritage" timetables have now been updated as required and are available for download. The main improvements are:

1969-1977 - diesel locos off up freights changing traction in Longsight U&DGL head to Longsight depot, not Stockport. Down Freightliners heading for Longsight FLT (wheel lathe site) reverse in Longsight Down Goods Loop, not Mayfield.
April 1989 (Northern & Whole Picture) - Westhoughton trip freight added
1991/1993/1996 - fully ARS enabled: Westhoughton trip freight added as appropriate.

Known bugs or typos also fixed, but doubtless there'll be more. If the latest version of a timetable is earlier than November 2020, no updates were found necessary.

I hope users enjoy these timetables. I am exploring another possible one for Piccadilly, but no hints yet as it may prove impossible due to lack of source material.

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 26/12/2020 at 02:14 #135355
whatlep
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Update 26/12/2020

The latest release of Piccadilly (v2.5) has changed some ARS pathing information and caused one train in each of the 1991 and 1996 timetables to require updating. Without the update, they simply will not run. Updated timetables (v2.2 for both 1991 and 1996) have been submitted to the Mods for approval. Please keep an eye out for them.

The coders have clearly been working overtime on ARS matters behind the scenes, with some significant improvements visible to a timetable writer. ARS appears to work rather well now for the 1990s timetables, except on the more complex moves around Longsight and Piccadilly and oddities such as the various trip workings.

Another "heritage" timetable for Piccadilly is not too far off being ready. It will be for June 1989, showcasing the 1989-1990 "timetable of death". Completely different to the existing 1989 timetables. The Windsor Link was fully open to service with a hugely ambitious revision to all timetables around Manchester, both north and south. It was a colossal failure, hated by passengers and unworkable in practice. In short, a prefect challenge for SimSig users!

Expect the June 1989 timetable to be available early in January 2021. Happy New Year!

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 31/12/2020 at 18:06 #135735
whatlep
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The June 1989 timetable is now with the Mods for approval. It's a real beast with large numbers of light engine moves at Piccadilly, but great fun - if mild frustration is your thing. It also works very well with ARS in the latest version of the simulation, apart from the terminus platforms at Piccadilly.

Feedback or bugs/ issues can be noted here.

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 04/01/2021 at 21:31 #135968
AlexH
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I'm running this hugely fun though challenging timetable at the moment. Came across a problem around 08.50 when I realised the empty stock for 1A29 didn't run (5A29) which means I have a problem in the engine siding.

A second issue then occurred - the shunter rang in for 5S49 to leave Longsight. Whenever I click to accept, it gives me an error saying what is in the attachment.

Thanks again

Alex

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 04/01/2021 at 23:01 #135970
Splodge
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I had the same with 5A29, but marking it as un-entered in the F4 timetable menu made it appear, albeit around 30' late when I realised!

FWIW, the sim loaded onto Wednesday if that has perhaps caused a rule to confuse.

There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 05/01/2021 at 08:44 #135977
AlexH
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I'll try that trick! I wish I were just 30 minutes late - nearer an hour at this point!

However, not sure about the issue with the entry at Longsight 39 which is giving me an error that I cannot move past.

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 05/01/2021 at 09:55 #135979
whatlep
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AlexH in post 135977 said:
I'll try that trick! I wish I were just 30 minutes late - nearer an hour at this point!

However, not sure about the issue with the entry at Longsight 39 which is giving me an error that I cannot move past.
The message you posted is a SimSig code error, not something to do with the timetable. Regarding late arrival of 5A29, a rogue tick appears to have crept into the timing sheet making it "run as required" on a 50% basis. Predictably, in multiple test runs of the timetable, it ran every time so the error wasn't detected.

I'll produce a V1.1 of the timetable correcting the issue, but you can untick the box and save the timetable as a new version yourself, though it won't take effect until you start a completely fresh run of the timetable.

Glad you're enjoying it and thanks for the notification.

Last edited: 05/01/2021 at 10:04 by whatlep
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 05/01/2021 at 17:48 #136012
GeoffM
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AlexH in post 135968 said:
I'm running this hugely fun though challenging timetable at the moment. Came across a problem around 08.50 when I realised the empty stock for 1A29 didn't run (5A29) which means I have a problem in the engine siding.

A second issue then occurred - the shunter rang in for 5S49 to leave Longsight. Whenever I click to accept, it gives me an error saying what is in the attachment.

Thanks again

Alex
Which TT was this, please? Several are mentioned in this thread and I couldn't reproduce it with the 1989 TT.

SimSig Boss
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 05/01/2021 at 19:45 #136019
AlexH
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Geoff - this was the June 1989 timetable from whetlep released recently. The only save I have is probably an autosave at 0800 (a good 45 minutes prior). However, this evening I opened it again and the error cleared.
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 05/01/2021 at 19:47 #136020
AlexH
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Ignore
Last edited: 05/01/2021 at 19:50 by AlexH
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 05/01/2021 at 20:17 #136022
GeoffM
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AlexH in post 136019 said:
Geoff - this was the June 1989 timetable from whetlep released recently. The only save I have is probably an autosave at 0800 (a good 45 minutes prior). However, this evening I opened it again and the error cleared.
Thanks. Can't reproduce with this one either. Any more help to narrow it down to a particular set of circumstances would be appreciated.

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 05/01/2021 at 21:51 #136023
AlexH
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The closest thing I have is this snapshot save. Nothing else abnormal happened (apart from rubbish regulation of trains...) until 5S49 called in at Longsight 39. I tried to accept but it would always prevent/recur this error.
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 13/01/2021 at 15:34 #136350
Splodge
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Enjoying the 1989 'chaos' timetable, noting sagely that they tried much the same thing with similar results!

One question I do have is that a lot of trains terminate at Cheadle Hulme - there is currently no provision for this under Manchester South, so what would happen there?

There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 14/01/2021 at 01:48 #136401
whatlep
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Splodge in post 136350 said:
Enjoying the 1989 'chaos' timetable, noting sagely that they tried much the same thing with similar results!

One question I do have is that a lot of trains terminate at Cheadle Hulme - there is currently no provision for this under Manchester South, so what would happen there?
In the late 1980s there was an up loop near Handforth, complete with trailing crossover north of the loop between the main lines. Trains ran to Cheadle Hulme, then ECS to/from Handforth loop before starting a northbound journey from Cheadle Hulme. Operationally and commercially it made no sense at all, but GMPTE was very keen on the idea of serving as far out from Manchester as possible within the county. From memory, the idea was abandoned by 1992 with services from Wigan/ Southport terminating at Stockport or running elsewhere. The loop and crossover were later lifted.

If a "heritage" era were ever created for Manchester South, it would benefit from having Handforth loop, 40mph speed over the Middlewich branch and the crossovers at Sydney Bridge Jn that enabled a couple of northbound local passenger services, plus some freights, to be passed by other trains between Crewe and Sandbach.

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 25/01/2021 at 03:54 #136762
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I'm running the June 1989 timetable. Its about 08:35 and I have 0A29 in the engine siding suppose to got platform 5 to join 5A29, except 5A29 isn't there. Looking at the timetable it looks like 5A29 is only designed to run 50% of the time.
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 26/01/2021 at 01:39 #136777
whatlep
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swiftaw in post 136762 said:
I'm running the June 1989 timetable. Its about 08:35 and I have 0A29 in the engine siding suppose to got platform 5 to join 5A29, except 5A29 isn't there. Looking at the timetable it looks like 5A29 is only designed to run 50% of the time.
Yep - known and documented earlier in this chain. It will be remedied in the next update. In the meantime, please remove the tick and resave the timetable.

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 26/01/2021 at 04:13 #136778
swiftaw
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whatlep in post 136777 said:
swiftaw in post 136762 said:
I'm running the June 1989 timetable. Its about 08:35 and I have 0A29 in the engine siding suppose to got platform 5 to join 5A29, except 5A29 isn't there. Looking at the timetable it looks like 5A29 is only designed to run 50% of the time.
Yep - known and documented earlier in this chain. It will be remedied in the next update. In the meantime, please remove the tick and resave the timetable.
Thanks, after I posted I realized it had been mentioned already

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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 30/01/2021 at 14:24 #136883
whatlep
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V1.1 for the June 1989 timetable is now with the Mods for approval. There is only one bug fix: that for 5A29's arrival already noted earlier in this thread.
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Manchester Piccadilly - timetable updates 28/12/2021 at 09:07 #143166
whatlep
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The ordinary and summer Saturday 1969 timetables for Piccadilly have been updated to match the latest version of the simulation software. The changes affect shunt moves in the station throat area.

The new timetables are both V2.2 and are now available to download.

I will be doing a check on other timetables over coming weeks, so keep an eye out for further updates. As always, if you find what looks like an error, please message me.

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