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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn.

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 20:29 #135747
bugsy
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Owing to a period of inattention to timetables (my biggest failing and I don't seem to be learning), I not only sent 4J03 the wrong way, which as it happens didn't really matter, but at about the same time I routed 2P51 towards Falkirk High and Croy at Polmont Jn. instead of towards Falkirk Grahamston and Stirling. I didn't notice this until quite some time later when 2P51 was approaching Queen Street and I had a quick look at its timetable to see what platform it was heading for. Oops.

Once again, apologies if this has been mentioned already, but I couldn’t find anything in previous forums posts.

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 21:19 #135752
swiftaw
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From the manual, https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:centralscotland:features#diverting_trains:

Diverting Trains
You will see that there are a variety of alternative routes between Polmont and Cowlairs via Greenhill Upper and Lower Junctions. The simulation is coded to allow for diversions without the need for user intervention; the timetable should automatically step up as the train passes certain trigger points. Note not every diversion possibility is coded and in some rare cases, you may still have to manually step up the timetable via F2 Options .

Falkirk High and Falkirk Grahamston are coded to be mutually recognised so a train booked a stop at one will automatically stop at the other, though the timetabled location will not update as such to reflect the alternative.

Drivers should not normally query a diversion provided the ultimate destination and intermediate station stops are still reachable. Invalid route phonecalls are coded to a minimum.

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 21:42 #135754
bugsy
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swiftaw in post 135752 said:
From the manual, https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:centralscotland:features#diverting_trains:

Diverting Trains
You will see that there are a variety of alternative routes between Polmont and Cowlairs via Greenhill Upper and Lower Junctions. The simulation is coded to allow for diversions without the need for user intervention; the timetable should automatically step up as the train passes certain trigger points. Note not every diversion possibility is coded and in some rare cases, you may still have to manually step up the timetable via F2 Options .

Falkirk High and Falkirk Grahamston are coded to be mutually recognised so a train booked a stop at one will automatically stop at the other, though the timetabled location will not update as such to reflect the alternative.

Drivers should not normally query a diversion provided the ultimate destination and intermediate station stops are still reachable. Invalid route phonecalls are coded to a minimum.
Yes, that's all understood. But in this instance the train was scheduled to go to Stirling and Dunblane and yes, it could have done so using an alternative route via Croy, Cowlairs East Jn, Springburn, Cumbernauld and Carmuirs West Jn. but if this was the case, unless I am mistaken, the driver should have complained of a wrong route at Cowlairs East Jn. where I set a route to Queen Street.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, in which case I blame the wine

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 21:56 #135756
postal
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bugsy in post 135747 said:
Owing to a period of inattention to timetables (my biggest failing and I don't seem to be learning), I not only sent 4J03 the wrong way, which as it happens didn't really matter, but at about the same time I routed 2P51 towards Falkirk High and Croy at Polmont Jn. instead of towards Falkirk Grahamston and Stirling. I didn't notice this until quite some time later when 2P51 was approaching Queen Street and I had a quick look at its timetable to see what platform it was heading for. Oops.

Once again, apologies if this has been mentioned already, but I couldn’t find anything in previous forums posts.

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You should start taking notice of the headcode. The letter in the 4-character description is a route indicator. If you have access to working timetables (downloadable from https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/the-timetable/working-timetable/) you will find book GC00 which is the cover document for the WTTs on the east side of Scotland. This lists the destinations for each letter and for P shows "(Newcraighall) / Edinburgh / Stirling / Dunblane / Perth services". Although the destination letters are not an infallible guide, seeing a 1PXX or 2PXX headcode is a good indicator that the train is booked from Polmont through Grahamaston and Larbert towards Stirling. Of relevance to CSCot, the following extracts from the WTT may be helpful:

A Aberdeen
B Edinburgh
D Motherwell / Cumbernauld services
H Inverness
J Glasgow Queen Street / Cumbernauld / Falkirk Grahamston services
L Dundee, Perth
N Glasgow Queen Street / Stirling / Dunblane / Perth services
P (Newcraighall) / Edinburgh / Stirling / Dunblane / Perth services
R Glasgow Queen Street / Edinburgh express services
T Aberdeen to Glasgow Queen Street
V Certain Glasgow suburban services (mainly to / from Springburn)
W Glasgow Queen Street / Anniesland (via Maryhill) services
Y West Highland Line services

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 01/01/2021 at 00:54 by postal
Reason: None given

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:03 #135757
Dionysusnu
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postal in post 135756 said:
bugsy in post 135747 said:
Owing to a period of inattention to timetables (my biggest failing and I don't seem to be learning), I not only sent 4J03 the wrong way, which as it happens didn't really matter, but at about the same time I routed 2P51 towards Falkirk High and Croy at Polmont Jn. instead of towards Falkirk Grahamston and Stirling. I didn't notice this until quite some time later when 2P51 was approaching Queen Street and I had a quick look at its timetable to see what platform it was heading for. Oops.

Once again, apologies if this has been mentioned already, but I couldn’t find anything in previous forums posts.

Save attached
You should start taking notice of the headcode. The letter in the 4-character description is a route indicator. If you have access to working timetables (downloadable from https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/the-timetable/working-timetable/ you will find book GC00 which is the cover document for the WTTs on the east side of Scotland. This lists the destinations for each letter and for P shows "(Newcraighall) / Edinburgh / Stirling / Dunblane / Perth services". Although the destination letters are not an infallible guide, seeing a 1PXX or 2PXX headcode is a good indicator that the train is booked from Polmont through Grahamaston and Larbert towards Stirling. Of relevance to CSCot, the following extracts from the WTT may be helpful:

A Aberdeen
B Edinburgh
D Motherwell / Cumbernauld services
H Inverness
J Glasgow Queen Street / Cumbernauld / Falkirk Grahamston services
L Dundee, Perth
N Glasgow Queen Street / Stirling / Dunblane / Perth services
P (Newcraighall) / Edinburgh / Stirling / Dunblane / Perth services
R Glasgow Queen Street / Edinburgh express services
T Aberdeen to Glasgow Queen Street
V Certain Glasgow suburban services (mainly to / from Springburn)
W Glasgow Queen Street / Anniesland (via Maryhill) services
Y West Highland Line services
Tried that on Kings cross once... turns out S is used both for FL IC225, S in my mind being Sandy
But also being used for Royston services...

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:41 #135758
bugsy
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I have taken notice of Headcodes on some of the other sims, notably Peterborough and Carlisle, but I have to gain some experience with a simulation in order to digest this information. I've yet to do so with Central Scotland but will eventually do so (hopefully).
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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:41 #135759
postal
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Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:
Tried that on Kings cross once... turns out S is used both for FL IC225, S in my mind being Sandy
But also being used for Royston services...


Not sure which TT you were using but in the current WTT (YA00) S is only used for services terminating in the former Scottish region. It seems unlikely that somewhere insignificant in network terms like Sandy with a minimal number of terminators would be graced with its own code letter. As I said, it is not infallible but is a good guide.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:43 #135760
postal
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bugsy in post 135758 said:
I have taken notice of Headcodes on some of the other sims, notably Peterborough and Carlisle, but I have to gain some experience with a simulation in order to digest this information. I've yet to do so with Central Scotland but will eventually do so (hopefully).
If you are trying to make sense of an area it is probably one of the more important bits of information. If you have had to signal one train with the headcode that should cause you to put a mental marker down (or a sticky note or notepad beside your keyboard) so that when train two comes along you are prepared.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:54 #135762
bugsy
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postal in post 135760 said:
bugsy in post 135758 said:
I have taken notice of Headcodes on some of the other sims, notably Peterborough and Carlisle, but I have to gain some experience with a simulation in order to digest this information. I've yet to do so with Central Scotland but will eventually do so (hopefully).
If you are trying to make sense of an area it is probably one of the more important bits of information. If you have had to signal one train with the headcode that should cause you to put a mental marker down (or a sticky note or notepad beside your keyboard) so that when train two comes along you are prepared.
That's a good idea. Another good idea is for me to read the flaming timetables, which as I've said before, is something that I fail to do so often :\

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:59 #135763
Steamer
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Mantis 32633 logged for the original issue; I tend to agree that a diversion via Colwairs is a bit egregious. The wrong route code is in correctly at Carmuirs East, so I assume the lack of it at Polmont is an oversight.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 23:13 #135766
Dionysusnu
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postal in post 135759 said:
Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:
Tried that on Kings cross once... turns out S is used both for FL IC225, S in my mind being Sandy
But also being used for Royston services...


Not sure which TT you were using but in the current WTT (YA00) S is only used for services terminating in the former Scottish region. It seems unlikely that somewhere insignificant in network terms like Sandy with a minimal number of terminators would be graced with its own code letter. As I said, it is not infallible but is a good guide.
Royston trains wouldn't go to Scotland though. I use the October 2018 TT.
What I said about Sandy is just a shortcut in my mind, because I know that Sandy is on Peterborough. Not that it actually terminates there.

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 00:43 #135770
postal
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Dionysusnu in post 135766 said:
What I said about Sandy is just a shortcut in my mind, because I know that Sandy is on Peterborough. Not that it actually terminates there.
The difference in thinking between people who have worked in logistics and the people who expect things to be there when they want them without having to worry about the back office!

[Edit] PS I've no reason to doubt the excellent work of David Splett who has created some great timetables for this sim, but the May to December 2018 WTT section YA00 only shows "S" as the indicator for trains to the former Scottish Region.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 01/01/2021 at 01:04 by postal
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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 07:24 #135782
clive
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Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:

Tried that on Kings cross once... turns out S is used both for FL IC225, S in my mind being Sandy
But also being used for Royston services...
When did that change? I'm used to Royston being R.

Or is 9Sxx for some Thameslink working?

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 07:46 #135784
JamesN
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clive in post 135782 said:
Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:

Tried that on Kings cross once... turns out S is used both for FL IC225, S in my mind being Sandy
But also being used for Royston services...
When did that change? I'm used to Royston being R.

Or is 9Sxx for some Thameslink working?
9Sxx is assigned to Brighton - Cambridge Thameslink services (even numbers Northbound, odd numbers Southbound)

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 11:07 #135790
clive
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JamesN in post 135784 said:
clive in post 135782 said:
Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:

Tried that on Kings cross once... turns out S is used both for FL IC225, S in my mind being Sandy
But also being used for Royston services...
When did that change? I'm used to Royston being R.

Or is 9Sxx for some Thameslink working?
9Sxx is assigned to Brighton - Cambridge Thameslink services (even numbers Northbound, odd numbers Southbound)
Damme, I knew that.

Opentraintimes still shows R for the few Royston starters/terminators.

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 21:02 #135838
bill_gensheet
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Steamer in post 135763 said:
Mantis 32633 logged for the original issue; I tend to agree that a diversion via Colwairs is a bit egregious. The wrong route code is in correctly at Carmuirs East, so I assume the lack of it at Polmont is an oversight.

Polmont - High - Greenhill (rev) - Larbert or Greenhill - High - Polmont(rev) Larbert are not *that* unreasonable.
The Cumbernauld vs Lenzie and the Edinburgh one (Dalmeny rev) are also reasonable.



Bill

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 21:39 #135841
Steamer
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bill_gensheet in post 135838 said:
Steamer in post 135763 said:
Mantis 32633 logged for the original issue; I tend to agree that a diversion via Colwairs is a bit egregious. The wrong route code is in correctly at Carmuirs East, so I assume the lack of it at Polmont is an oversight.

Polmont - High - Greenhill (rev) - Larbert or Greenhill - High - Polmont(rev) Larbert are not *that* unreasonable.
The Cumbernauld vs Lenzie and the Edinburgh one (Dalmeny rev) are also reasonable.



Bill
Anything with a reversal would be timetabled though (and thus not generate a call). If booked direct to Stirling, the driver would definitely query this one in reality.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 02/01/2021 at 13:06 #135875
bill_gensheet
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Steamer in post 135841 said:
bill_gensheet in post 135838 said:
Steamer in post 135763 said:
Mantis 32633 logged for the original issue; I tend to agree that a diversion via Colwairs is a bit egregious. The wrong route code is in correctly at Carmuirs East, so I assume the lack of it at Polmont is an oversight.

Polmont - High - Greenhill (rev) - Larbert or Greenhill - High - Polmont(rev) Larbert are not *that* unreasonable.
The Cumbernauld vs Lenzie and the Edinburgh one (Dalmeny rev) are also reasonable.
Bill
Anything with a reversal would be timetabled though (and thus not generate a call). If booked direct to Stirling, the driver would definitely query this one in reality.
Depends on the circumstances.
Randomly - yes the route would be queried.

For engineering - a revised VAR or WTT was supplied so the train would follow that. Wrong route should not happen as the signaller should have reminders and blocks in place. Would anybody write a SimSig timetable for that ? Unlikely.

For incidents - no. The crew would be advised by control before departure and there would not be a VAR/VSTP WTT done. As such no route query should result at Polmont. In Simsig all that would need is a F2 'reverse' and 'set next stop' at Greenhill rather than constructing new schedules, so that realistic subsequent delays would follow.

So is it really a sim requirement to guard against 'fat finger/brain' (sorry Bugsy !) by making 'incident recovery games' more difficult than they should be?

Bill

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 02/01/2021 at 14:08 #135884
Dionysusnu
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JamesN in post 135784 said:
clive in post 135782 said:
Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:

Tried that on Kings cross once... turns out S is used both for FL IC225, S in my mind being Sandy
But also being used for Royston services...
When did that change? I'm used to Royston being R.

Or is 9Sxx for some Thameslink working?
9Sxx is assigned to Brighton - Cambridge Thameslink services (even numbers Northbound, odd numbers Southbound)
Ah, so that's where the royston S headcodes came from. I hadn't spotted the numbers corresponding.

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 02/01/2021 at 15:46 #135890
Peter Bennet
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clive in post 135790 said:
JamesN in post 135784 said:
clive in post 135782 said:
Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:

Tried that on Kings cross once... turns out S is used both for FL IC225, S in my mind being Sandy
But also being used for Royston services...
When did that change? I'm used to Royston being R.

Or is 9Sxx for some Thameslink working?
9Sxx is assigned to Brighton - Cambridge Thameslink services (even numbers Northbound, odd numbers Southbound)
Damme, I knew that.

Opentraintimes still shows R for the few Royston starters/terminators.
9S and 9J are used for services through the TL core to Cambridge and Peterborough (odd/even as James said).
P, C and R are used for trains to/from KGX whether designated as TL or GN services.

I think the remaining 2Cnn TL services are supposed to be going through St Pancras at some point to a different destination (Maidstone?) so will I guess become 9[something].

The WGC to KGX TL operated services (seem to be temporarily suspended) are to eventually go through too and will, I presume, become 9[somthing].

Peter

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Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 02/01/2021 at 16:14 #135899
MarkC
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For those that are interested I have created a list of GN/Thameslink TD, this is the current allocation.

1Cxx London Kings Cross – Cambridge semi-fast services
Cambridge – London Kings Cross semi-fast services

1Pxx Peterborough – London Kings Cross semi-fast services (1P01 to 1P79)
London King’s Cross – Peterborough semi-fast services (1P00 to 1P78)
Peterborough – London Kings Cross fast services (maximum of four stops; 1P81 to 99)
London King’s Cross – Peterborough fast services (maximum of four stops; 1P80 to 98)

1Rxx London Kings Cross – Letchworth / Baldock / Royston semi-fast services
Royston / Baldock / Letchworth – London Kings Cross semi-fast services

1Txx Kings Lynn – Ely - London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross – Ely - Kings Lynn

2B01-79 Hertford North to Moorgate
2B00-78 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Hertford North

2B81-97 Hertford North to Moorgate via SL2
2B80-96 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Hertford North via SL2

2Cxx King’s Cross to Cambridge stopping services
Cambridge to King’s Cross stopping services

2Dxx Stevenage, Hertford North or Gordon Hill to King’s Cross (odd)
Moorgate or King’s Cross to Stevenage Platform 4 via Hertford North (even)

2F01-79 Stevenage to Moorgate via Hertford North
2F00-78 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Stevenage Bay via Hertford North

2F81-99 Stevenage to Moorgate via Hertford North and SL2
2F80-98 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Stevenage via SL2 and Hertford North

2G01-79 Gordon Hill to Moorgate
2G00-78 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Gordon Hill

2G81-99 Gordon Hill to Moorgate via SL2
2G80-98 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Gordon Hill via SL2

2K01-97 Welwyn GC to Moorgate via SL2 (includes trains starting at Finsbury Park)
2K00-96 Moorgate to Welwyn GC via SL2 (includes trains terminating at Finsbury Park)

2K98-99 Moorgate staff trains

2Pxx Peterborough to King’s Cross stopping services
King’s Cross to Peterborough stopping services

2Rxx Royston, Baldock or Letchworth to King’s Cross stopping services
King’s Cross to Letchworth, Baldock or Royston stopping services

2V01-99 Welwyn GC to Moorgate
2V00-98 Moorgate to Welwyn GC

2W01-79 Alexandra Palace to Moorgate or King’s Cross
2W00-78 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Alexandra Palace

2Yxx Welwyn GC to King’s Cross (includes Thameslink services)
King’s Cross to Welwyn GC (includes Thameslink services)

5E10-49 GTR South-End arrivals
5E50-69 GTR North-End arrivals from London via Bowes Park Reversing Siding
5E70-79 GTR North-End arrivals from or via Welwyn Garden City
5E80-89 GTR North-End arrivals from or via Hertford North / Gordon Hill
5E90-99 Test trains and extraordinary services


9Jxx Peterborough and Horsham via London Bridge and Redhill
9Sxx Cambridge and Gatwick Airport / Three Bridges / Brighton via London Bridge and Quarry Lines
9Uxx Cambridge and Maidstone East / Ashford via London Bridge and Swanley
9Yxx Welwyn Garden City / Blackfriars and Sevenoaks via Catford and Swanley

Last edited: 02/01/2021 at 16:14 by MarkC
Reason: None given

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