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1A53 wrong route not queried by driver

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1A53 wrong route not queried by driver 06/01/2021 at 14:19 #136040
clive
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jc92 in post 136037 said:

+1 for this. Great idea. I wish this happened for signals put back in front of drivers as well. I know SimSig doesn't support accidents, but the route would still be locked so it wouldn't be unsafe, while still penalising the signaller for making the error.
Was considered a few years ago and rejected as against policy (Mantis 17131 for those with access).

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1A53 wrong route not queried by driver 06/01/2021 at 14:21 #136041
clive
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Splodge in post 136032 said:
Quote:
Now generally where a junction is of similar speeds (so no FY aspects) is it not likely that by the time the driver sees the wrong route it will be too late to stop ?
Yes - a friend who drives for TPE tells me that Micklefield and Colton junctions on the York ROC panels are high risk for this, Colton in particular as its 125mph for both routes.
After one too many, Colton was fitted with PRIs (white arrows telling you which way you're going at the next junction).

(I vaguely remember a friend who drove NOLstars got caught out at Colton.)

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1A53 wrong route not queried by driver 06/01/2021 at 14:25 #136042
clive
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It's a pity splitting distants have gone out of fashion.

https://www.davros.org/rail/signalling/articles/junctions.html

just over half way down. (Note: it's a very old page that probably could do with an update.)

And 23 years ago Railtrack (remember them?) came up with a single consistent system for junction signalling:

https://www.davros.org/rail/signalling/articles/jwisystem.html

which I would have liked to have seen brought into use.

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1A53 wrong route not queried by driver 06/01/2021 at 17:23 #136046
jc92
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As an afterthought to johns proposal, what would the option be where a train takes a wrong route with no way to regain the correct routing? For example a train takes the wrong route at swinton, heading for mexborough instead of moorthorpe? Theres nowhere to reverse the train. Will the only option be abandon timetable?
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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1A53 wrong route not queried by driver 06/01/2021 at 17:45 #136047
GeoffM
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clive in post 136039 said:
postal in post 136031 said:
bill_gensheet in post 136030 said:
Now generally where a junction is of similar speeds (so no FY aspects) is it not likely that by the time the driver sees the wrong route it will be too late to stop ?

Now that would be an evil addition to the core code! Where the train would be expected to stop before the signal, allow a wrong route call from the signal but where the train would overshoot, stop the train at the next signal after the junction for the wrong route call.
Already on my list: Mantis 3697.
I'm not in favour of allowing a train to go beyond the point (sorry) of no return as that involves rules for setting back that the average user is not going to know (and likely varies per area). What I am in favour of is coming to a stand at the junction signal with normal braking and then imposing a time penalty before the train will move again. In addition, throwing back a signal where otherwise the routes set were appropriate for the train, again I'm okay with the train sliding past the offending signal, braking to a stand, and doing what it does now (time penalty while it calls control).

SimSig Boss
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1A53 wrong route not queried by driver 06/01/2021 at 19:54 #136051
Dionysusnu
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GeoffM in post 136047 said:
clive in post 136039 said:
postal in post 136031 said:
bill_gensheet in post 136030 said:
Now generally where a junction is of similar speeds (so no FY aspects) is it not likely that by the time the driver sees the wrong route it will be too late to stop ?

Now that would be an evil addition to the core code! Where the train would be expected to stop before the signal, allow a wrong route call from the signal but where the train would overshoot, stop the train at the next signal after the junction for the wrong route call.
Already on my list: Mantis 3697.
I'm not in favour of allowing a train to go beyond the point (sorry) of no return as that involves rules for setting back that the average user is not going to know (and likely varies per area). What I am in favour of is coming to a stand at the junction signal with normal braking and then imposing a time penalty before the train will move again. In addition, throwing back a signal where otherwise the routes set were appropriate for the train, again I'm okay with the train sliding past the offending signal, braking to a stand, and doing what it does now (time penalty while it calls control).
So just to get it clear, you're in favor supporting the feature for ACOA, but not for wrong routes? If so, I agree.

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1A53 wrong route not queried by driver 06/01/2021 at 20:39 #136053
03piggs
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bugsy in post 135999 said:
Whilst thinking about this topic, I decided to do a bit of digging on YouTube and found a train driver's VLOG in which he describes an occasion when he actually took a wrong route, realised it, phoned the signaller to advise him and ask for instructions. He had to reverse his train to an appropriate location where he could be directed onto the correct route. He was driving an EMU and had to undertake what he described as "the walk of shame". Twice!

I wonder if any of the drivers on this forum would admit that they've had to do this :D
I had something similar once at rush hour out of Liverpool Street. Was on a Hertford east service, and after we left Liverpool Street driver announced there was a points failure at coppermill junc. We were told we were going via Stratford. We got as far as Lea Bridge. Stopped for 20-30 minutes as the driver said we couldn't go any further. Ended up going back to Liverpool Street. Poor driver had to trudge past all the grumpy commuters. We must of crossed over by the entrance to the temple mills loop. Only time I've ever been on a train going wrong line!!

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1A53 wrong route not queried by driver 07/01/2021 at 08:48 #136057
kbarber
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Splodge in post 136032 said:
Quote:
Now generally where a junction is of similar speeds (so no FY aspects) is it not likely that by the time the driver sees the wrong route it will be too late to stop ?
Yes - a friend who drives for TPE tells me that Micklefield and Colton junctions on the York ROC panels are high risk for this, Colton in particular as its 125mph for both routes.

<snip>
Yes, I heard the risk went the wrong way on at least one occasion. Apparently in that situation the quick-thinking driver's best response was to get to the 'pan down' button as soon as he realised the feather was dark.

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