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| Mandatory dwell times 08/01/2021 at 22:52 #136125 | |
mjkerr
174 posts |
Does anyone have the mandatory dwell times? Could they be added for information? I have now worked out, the following, are they correct? Join Train = 3 minutes Detach Loco = 3 minutes Drop Coaches = 3 minutes Crew Change = 2 minutes Is there any way to reduce them? For example one working I have the Class 08 joins and splits at the same time, with a driver and two shunters I have created a test and this takes nine minutes, but it should take about three minutes as both crews work together Edit : I can reduce the Crew Change to 0:01, by swapping from Crew Change to dwell time instead In the 1980s I observed many Crew Changes taking less than 30 seconds! Even the ones I worked on could be completed on in less than 2 minutes DELETED Last edited: 08/01/2021 at 22:55 by mjkerr Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 08/01/2021 at 22:57 #136128 | |
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AlexRail575
136 posts |
If you go in Timetable -> Edit --> Train Types, you should be able to manually adjust dwell times for different train categories. Alternatively, you can adjust custom dwell times for each train in the "Train characteristics" tab of each train's timetable.
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| Mandatory dwell times 08/01/2021 at 23:02 #136130 | |
Steamer
3922 posts |
See: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:ssrun:func:f4:traintypes and: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:ttuse:dwell_times for custom dwell time details. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 08/01/2021 at 23:03 #136131 | |
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mjkerr
174 posts |
AlexRail575 in post 136128 said:If you go in Timetable -> Edit --> Train Types, you should be able to manually adjust dwell times for different train categories. Alternatively, you can adjust custom dwell times for each train in the "Train characteristics" tab of each train's timetable. As above, I have already amended dwell times when no activity takes place One example is where the train picks up the shunter in P4 so that the train can reverse back in to the station However does the Dwell time entry over-ride the mandatory activities? ie the Sim Detach Loco is 00:03:00 If I enter 00:00:20 it will take 20 seconds instead? DELETED Last edited: 08/01/2021 at 23:12 by mjkerr Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 09/01/2021 at 12:41 #136144 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
Yes
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 09/01/2021 at 13:13 #136147 | |
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bill_gensheet
1315 posts |
A caution that there are a couple of open Mantis reports around this, so in some cases the core code design intent may not be matching the current outcome and although fairly trivial and benign could cause confusion if anyone looks too closely. Summary of Mantis 31269, 15591 & 24402, apologies if my paraphrasing has lost some meaning: [GM] Station dwells default to 25s if no dwell times are set. [C] There is (length maths and some randomness) in actual reversal times allowing for the crew to walk to the other end etc. ----------- For Mantis 0024402, I was looking at Motherwell as there is a 120m train that reverses with TD change in 20 to 25 seconds, hence the reporting of it. I observed that: Reversal time is not zero, as I can clear the signal even before the train stops, and the train waits 20-25 seconds, suggesting a 'station stop forward default'. This train type has zero dwells set for all activities - so should go to default. The calculation in Mantis 0015591 gives this as 80 to 95 seconds. If I do set dwell times for the train type, ( 1 min station forward, 1m30 for terminate forward, 2 min for station rev, 3 min for terminate rev to tell them apart) I get 2m55s as expected, so proving it is classed as doing a 'terminate reverse' but being done in 20s by default. I have not retested (since September) with the latest core codes, but no indication to me that there have been changes. Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 09/01/2021 at 20:09 #136161 | |
58050
2650 posts |
mjkerr in post 136125 said:Does anyone have the mandatory dwell times?Your way out on your suggested timings for splits & joms. The only one I'd say you've got right is the crew change timings. Don't forget the shunters at Carlisle are professional & do this daily as a living. Joins for locos & coaching stock would take only 1 minute. Also divides or drop coaches are the same thing & that tkes 1 minute also. That's the same amounnt of time it takes to join & split locos even those in multiple as I've done it many times during my time on the footplate. The only thing that takes longer is joining or splitting DMUs(First Generation vacuum braked ones that is). The vacuum pipes on those DMUs are b******s as they are very stiff to twist to get the luggs into the right place for the pipes to seal properly. The mandatoey time allowed for crew changes are 2 mins, no exceptions. I'll give you a tip regarding the coupling/uncoupling times, when I first wrote the Carlisle 79-80 SimSig wasn't set up as it is now & trains changing locos or joining/detaching vehicles always left 2-3 minutes late due the the amount of time taken to join/detach vehicles took way too long. In every TT I've written Joins/Detaches are all set to 1 min & DMUs are 2 mins. 2nd generation DMUs such as Pacers & Sprinters are 30 secs as they have auto-couplers. Doing a BR era TT for Carlisle you definately need to keep the timings down to a minimum so you can keep everything running on time. Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 09/01/2021 at 21:06 #136165 | |
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mjkerr
174 posts |
58050 in post 136161 said:Your way out on your suggested timings for splits & joins The times I posted were the current sim timings They seem rather long for some splits and joins Equally when they are sequential time runs out! I have one that takes nine minutes, using the default values This should be handled by two shunters One working on the join for the Class 08 to the rear of the train One working on the split for the front three coaches and then the loco to be detached On the plus side I do not have any DMU join or split It would appear these are performed out of area (Kingmoor Depot, Lancaster, Whitehaven) DELETED Last edited: 09/01/2021 at 21:12 by mjkerr Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 09/01/2021 at 21:38 #136169 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
mjkerr in post 136165 said:58050 in post 136161 said:I nrvrt use default timings for Joins/Detaches as they aren't realistic. I always do my own as I've said before 1 minute to join or detach. Cl.08 locos always have their own shunter assigned to them so they carry out the join or detach where the loco is. Stations like Carlisle also have shunters allocated to deal with trains on specific platforms & as you say sometimes there are 2 shunters dealing with the same train at the same time. I don't know what year this prohect is your working on, but I;ve got approx 5 more station working books for Carlisle from 1980 through to 1988 & 1991. The 1980-1981, 1981-1982 & 1982-1983 books are pretty much the same as the 1979-1980 although they don't have any Penmanshiel diversiond on the others, but the same trains sually run around the same time & also have the same shunts on them, so timings to deal with the associated shunts are critical to get the train away R/T. If I were you I wouldn't bother using the default settings as there not that realistic. Otherwise when the day comes & you've added in all the trains you'll find alot of them will need amending which will make more work for you.Your way out on your suggested timings for splits & joins Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 10/01/2021 at 14:00 #136185 | |
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mjkerr
174 posts |
My first question still remains, what are the default values? 58050 in post 136169 said: I always do my own as I've said before 1 minute to join or detach. Cl.08 locos always have their own shunter assigned to them so they carry out the join or detach where the loco is. Stations like Carlisle also have shunters allocated to deal with trains on specific platforms & as you say sometimes there are 2 shunters dealing with the same train at the same time. I don't know what year this prohect is your working on This is very time consuming, amending each train within the timetable on a project that is already underway Current project is Summer 1986; completed all passenger trains, freightliner and steel Next project will be Summer 1988, but this should be easier as a lot can be copied / amended from the above DELETED Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 10/01/2021 at 14:28 #136186 | |
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Steamer
3922 posts |
mjkerr in post 136185 said:My first question still remains, what are the default values?If you read through the links I posted above, you'll see that the time taken for each type of activity can be changed by train type. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 10/01/2021 at 18:48 #136209 | |
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mjkerr
174 posts |
Steamer in post 136186 said:If you read through the links I posted above, you'll see that the time taken for each type of activity can be changed by train type Yes, I know advised above that means amending every timetable entry Hence my request to know the default settings... Not much to ask is it? DELETED Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 10/01/2021 at 19:01 #136210 | |
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Steamer
3922 posts |
mjkerr in post 136209 said:Steamer in post 136186 said:No, it means amending every train type. This is hopefully less laborious than amending each individual train.If you read through the links I posted above, you'll see that the time taken for each type of activity can be changed by train type Quote: Not much to ask is it?Neither is acknowledging those who are assisting you, yet you persist in posting streams of conscience... "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply The following users said thank you: jc92, 58050, postal |
| Mandatory dwell times 10/01/2021 at 20:04 #136211 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
mjkerr in post 136185 said:My first question still remains, what are the default values?I'll look forward to your version of the summer 1988 Carlisle TT as I'll be doing exactly the same one in due course. See youdoing this project, you've made the first big mistake by leaving everything as default. I found outwhen I first wrote the Carlisle 79-80 TT & you only had the default setting for joins/detaches that you couldn't get any trains away right time if they had a join/detach associated with them. So when the variable times were intriduced into the TT activities I went through the whole TT changing everything to the time it took in real life & not using the default. You'll probably find at your cost that you'll end up having to do the same. Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 10/01/2021 at 22:29 #136218 | |
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mjkerr
174 posts |
Steamer in post 136210 said:No, it means amending every train type. This is hopefully less laborious than amending each individual train. There is no option for this, it is on each individual timetable DELETED Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 10/01/2021 at 22:31 #136219 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
mjkerr in post 136218 said:Steamer in post 136210 said:No it's available per individual train types as well.No, it means amending every train type. This is hopefully less laborious than amending each individual train. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 10/01/2021 at 22:36 #136220 | |
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mjkerr
174 posts |
I have now started amending every timetable, very time consuming However, at least they will be a little more realistic than the "unknown" default values 3 minutes changed to 3 minutes, no difference, why? DELETED Last edited: 11/01/2021 at 08:56 by mjkerr Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 10/01/2021 at 22:39 #136221 | |
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mjkerr
174 posts |
headshot119 in post 136219 said:No it's available per individual train types as well. I am unable to find this either Where are they in the manual for Carlisle simulation / Wiki / other source? DELETED Last edited: 10/01/2021 at 22:44 by mjkerr Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 10/01/2021 at 22:57 #136222 | |
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Steamer
3922 posts |
mjkerr in post 136221 said:headshot119 in post 136219 said:I posted the two links you need above. Please read and look at the images carefully.No it's available per individual train types as well. If you look at the first page I linked to, you'll see this, with parameters defined below:  As for the latest problem, you'll need to change the Acceleration/Brake and Weight categories appropriately. Length won't affect performance (other than being able to accelerate to higher speed limits earlier). Post has attachments. Log in to view them. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 10/01/2021 at 22:58 by Steamer Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Mandatory dwell times 11/01/2021 at 08:53 #136224 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
mjkerr in post 136220 said:I have now started amending every timetable, very time consumingAs I'd expect really. An 86 is an 86. OK, an 87 has a few more horses, but line speed and traction/rolling stock speed are exactly the same, so the only difference will be in acceleration. On an Inter-City service with few stops (and, obviously, being held to time at each stop) that means almost no benefit from the extra power. An 86 was capable of handling any conceivable Inter-City load at line speed over Shap. The only time you'd really see a difference is on freight, where the acceleration from a stand would become significant. Always interesting when I was in the Brent on nights, to hear a long freightliner going by; they'd be turned straight out on to the down fast at that time of night so by the time the locos (86 + 87) passed the supervisors' office the tail end was just about over the points and the driver was notching up in earnest. You could really hear the power going down onto the rail, and the train (usually 30 flats) accelerated audibly as it passed! Great days! Log in to reply |