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Warner Routes

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Warner Routes 04/05/2021 at 16:33 #139289
rodney30
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Hi

I have noticed since the last update (dont know if it is Simsig or Windows) some of the Warner Routes on some if not all the sims once you set a route to a warner route it works fine for the first train but the second one and all after that the overlap for the warner route is highlighted
blocking the set of points.

Rodney 30

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Warner Routes 04/05/2021 at 17:10 #139290
jc92
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Is then when the signal is in Automatic mode with the A button operated? if so thats pretty normal.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Warner Routes 04/05/2021 at 17:36 #139291
Hap
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rodney30 in post 139289 said:
Hi

I have noticed since the last update (dont know if it is Simsig or Windows) some of the Warner Routes on some if not all the sims once you set a route to a warner route it works fine for the first train but the second one and all after that the overlap for the warner route is highlighted
blocking the set of points.

Rodney 30
is there any more info as the the specific sim that you were using also?

HAP
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Warner Routes 04/05/2021 at 17:52 #139292
rodney30
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yes in auto (never used to do that) and it was Man Picc, Three Bridges and London Bridge, to name a few.
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Warner Routes 04/05/2021 at 17:58 #139293
Dionysusnu
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previously, it was like this
situation: warner route set and auto button on
One of three cases could happen
- warner route gets used
- warner route gets cancelled
- warner route gets upgraded to normal route because the next route gets set
now, it's related to the last case.
Previously, once the normal route got used and released, the route would go back to its warner version, with reduced overlap. However, since the loader update, the route does go back to a warner aspect, but uses full overlap. So now you have a full overlap, but still an approach locked aspect. It makes warner route auto buttons quite useless, in cases like Hertford North, where you usually want to use the warner route, but sometimes want a straight-through route for a freight train. After the freight train passes, it will be a full overlap blocking the points, while the signal before it is still approach locked. Before loader 5.15, the route would go back to the reduced overlap.

steps to reproduce:
- load Brighton with seeding the attached TT
- set 425 > 431
- set 435 > Brighton P5 exit arrow
After the train passes, the route will be warner with full overlap.

but, if the signal has cleared for the warner route, then the overlap returns to reduced afterwards
steps for that:
- load Brighton with seeding the attached TT
- set 425 > 431
- wait until the signal clears, which is at 2:10 in my testing
- set 435 > Brighton P5
- overlap will reduce to normal when the train clears it, which is at 3:15 in my testing
even if you set the route before the train enters 431's overlap track section, the overlap at 435 will return to reduced

Attached is also a screenshot of what happens after the train has passed.


[copy-pasted from #bug-reports in the discord, if you want more info]

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Last edited: 04/05/2021 at 18:05 by Dionysusnu
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Warner Routes 04/05/2021 at 18:08 #139294
jc92
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I'm fairly sure its nothing to do with a loader update. This behaviour (full overlap after passage of a train) occurred with warner routes in auto historically and has done for years. Its possible it depends on the control tables for each location, with certain ones displaying one behaviour, and others a different one though.

That said, I'd expect the full overlap route following passage, to clear immediately.

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
Last edited: 04/05/2021 at 18:09 by jc92
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Warner Routes 04/05/2021 at 18:10 #139295
Dionysusnu
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I'm fairly sure it was different before V5.15. I never experienced this behaviour before updating, but I did not change anything in how I used auto buttons/warner routes.
Note that the route doesn't go to the normal version, but it stays in warner aspect, but with a full overlap. That would never seem right to me.
Before the loader update, the route would return to a reduced overlap, with warner aspect.

Last edited: 04/05/2021 at 18:13 by Dionysusnu
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Warner Routes 04/05/2021 at 18:17 #139296
jc92
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Dionysusnu in post 139295 said:

Before the loader update, the route would return to a reduced overlap, with warner aspect.
And you can confirm that for every single warner route on every single sim? Like I said, I wonder if this depends on the interlocking provided.

I'm fairly sure for instance that the warner routes on Rugby south returned to a main aspect when in auto, which is why I never bothered using them for instance.

there's effectively 2 issues here:

1) should all warner routes remain warner when in auto
2) the issue regarding full overlap with warner aspect

I'm inclined to agree 2 is a bug, but 1 I'm definetely not sure about.

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
Last edited: 04/05/2021 at 18:22 by jc92
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Warner Routes 04/05/2021 at 18:40 #139297
Dionysusnu
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Ah, I see what you mean now. I agree that 1 doesn't seem like a bug, but the routes that previously returned to warner with reduced overlap, now exhibit your point 2, is what I was trying to say.
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Warner Routes 04/05/2021 at 19:19 #139298
Albert
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I can confirm signal 903 on SwinDid does the same thing now. That sim has not been updated for some years.

I have saved games of loader 5.13 in which the warner route from 903 is set on auto. If I replay such a game, the warner route works, as long as I don't cancel it. This suggests that the bug is triggered by setting the warner route with the new loader.

EDIT: turns out I was wrong and the route didn't upgrade in my first attempt because the train had already passed the approach controlled signal before it. Even in a reloaded save the overlap stays long after the route has been upgraded.

AJP in games
Last edited: 04/05/2021 at 19:32 by Albert
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Warner Routes 04/05/2021 at 19:53 #139300
GeoffM
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Mantis 33587 and fixed for the next release.

While step-up was working correctly (stepping up both the route class and overlap), stepping down was not (route did; overlap did not). I've gone back to 2018 and it was broken back then, so I don't know exactly when it broke.

SimSig Boss
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Warner Routes 05/05/2021 at 03:21 #139311
flabberdacks
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It did the same thing after an update about that long ago I think. Was fixed soon afterwards
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Warner Routes 05/05/2021 at 09:10 #139317
jc92
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GeoffM in post 139300 said:
Mantis 33587 and fixed for the next release.

While step-up was working correctly (stepping up both the route class and overlap), stepping down was not (route did; overlap did not). I've gone back to 2018 and it was broken back then, so I don't know exactly when it broke.
To confirm then, should a Warner route set in auto, always return to being a Warner route? If so, I assume the issue has been there the whole time and I've just accepted it as how it works 😆

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Warner Routes 05/05/2021 at 11:42 #139321
Dionysusnu
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jc92 in post 139317 said:
GeoffM in post 139300 said:
Mantis 33587 and fixed for the next release.

While step-up was working correctly (stepping up both the route class and overlap), stepping down was not (route did; overlap did not). I've gone back to 2018 and it was broken back then, so I don't know exactly when it broke.
To confirm then, should a Warner route set in auto, always return to being a Warner route? If so, I assume the issue has been there the whole time and I've just accepted it as how it works 😆

Currently, it seems to depend on when you enable the auto button. If you enable auto before the next route is set, it will stay in warner. If you enable it after the next route is set, it'll use the normal route.

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Warner Routes 05/05/2021 at 11:51 #139322
Albert
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jc92 in post 139317 said:
To confirm then, should a Warner route set in auto, always return to being a Warner route?
I think that that is certainly the case for routes like 903 to 907 on SwinDid where movements that conflict with the full overlap are frequent, but trains taking a diverging route from signal 903 aren't. In the Brighton case, I don't know how many trains actually use the Goods Rec.

AJP in games
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Warner Routes 05/05/2021 at 19:26 #139331
GeoffM
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Dionysusnu in post 139321 said:
jc92 in post 139317 said:
GeoffM in post 139300 said:
Mantis 33587 and fixed for the next release.

While step-up was working correctly (stepping up both the route class and overlap), stepping down was not (route did; overlap did not). I've gone back to 2018 and it was broken back then, so I don't know exactly when it broke.
To confirm then, should a Warner route set in auto, always return to being a Warner route? If so, I assume the issue has been there the whole time and I've just accepted it as how it works 😆

Currently, it seems to depend on when you enable the auto button. If you enable auto before the next route is set, it will stay in warner. If you enable it after the next route is set, it'll use the normal route.
That's how it should work, yes.

SimSig Boss
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Warner Routes 14/06/2021 at 12:59 #139992
Dionysusnu
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So this seems to have been mostly fixed in
Quote:
Loader: SimSig Loader version 5.15; Sim: Simulation King's Cross; data version 3.8

9/10 cases the overlap returns to reduced, however I still had one case in which the overlap stayed on full. I don't have reproduction steps, nor a useful savegame.. Will try to get them if it happens again.

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Warner Routes 14/06/2021 at 13:03 #139993
Dionysusnu
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It seems to be related to signalling two trains onwards without them activating the warner route, while the first train is still in the full overlap.
Save attached from after. The warner route is in auto. I signalled both 2J38 and 4O20 from 912 to 904, before they each cleared the warner aspect. The overlap returned to reduced after the passing of 2J38. I then set the route for 4O20, after which the overlap stayed in the full version.

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Warner Routes 14/06/2021 at 13:18 #139994
Dionysusnu
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Here's a save before the bug. After 0P03 passes, the overlap stays in full version.
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