Some glitches, I think.

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Some glitches, I think. 17/08/2021 at 18:50 #141183
Afterbrunel
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Excellent sim by the way. I don't think these have been reported yet.

1) If you clear the non-stop release on Kingsknowe and Kirknewton level crossings, this does not survive a save and exit when you reopen the sim on another occasion.

2) Imagine a train fails, but it will be running again at a time hh:mm. If it so happens that you save and exit at that exact time and reopen later, the sim forgets that the train is going to restart, and in fact it remains failed for ever. (I do a lot of short-ish sessions; this has happened twice in the last 12 hours of simulated time.)

3) In normal operation, when you call a route, sometimes another train is occupying the overlap. If possible intervening points will be swung to provide the overlap. This fails to happen if you try to clear E427 to E455 (platform 10) when platform 11 is occupied and the scissors points are lying normal. If you manually reverse the scissors points (platform 10 to South Loop West) E427 will then clear, with the overlap leading into S-L-West.

4) Signals E471 and E465 are sometimes cleared prematurely when a train is in the berth, about 20 minutes before the proper departure time. I haven't been able to correlate this with any explanatory factor.

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Some glitches, I think. 17/08/2021 at 19:11 #141184
Peter Bennet
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Afterbrunel in post 141183 said:
Excellent sim by the way. I don't think these have been reported yet.

1) If you clear the non-stop release on Kingsknowe and Kirknewton level crossings, this does not survive a save and exit when you reopen the sim on another occasion.

What exactly are the symptoms?

Quote:

2) Imagine a train fails, but it will be running again at a time hh:mm. If it so happens that you save and exit at that exact time and reopen later, the sim forgets that the train is going to restart, and in fact it remains failed for ever. (I do a lot of short-ish sessions; this has happened twice in the last 12 hours of simulated time.)

I think that's core code

Quote:

3) In normal operation, when you call a route, sometimes another train is occupying the overlap. If possible intervening points will be swung to provide the overlap. This fails to happen if you try to clear E427 to E455 (platform 10) when platform 11 is occupied and the scissors points are lying normal. If you manually reverse the scissors points (platform 10 to South Loop West) E427 will then clear, with the overlap leading into S-L-West.

I suspect it wants you to use the Warner route in these circumstances.

Quote:

4) Signals E471 and E465 are sometimes cleared prematurely when a train is in the berth, about 20 minutes before the proper departure time. I haven't been able to correlate this with any explanatory factor.

It's set as 25 seconds, I'd need further and better particulars to comment further.

Peter

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Last edited: 17/08/2021 at 19:12 by Peter Bennet
Reason: None given

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Some glitches, I think. 17/08/2021 at 20:04 #141185
bill_gensheet
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Peter Bennet in post 141184 said:
Afterbrunel in post 141183 said:
Excellent sim by the way. I don't think these have been reported yet.

1) If you clear the non-stop release on Kingsknowe and Kirknewton level crossings, this does not survive a save and exit when you reopen the sim on another occasion.

What exactly are the symptoms?

Peter
Effect confirmed, save attached.
Started with no timetable and paused.
Clicked both 'non-stops' and set routes forward from ES692 (Kingsknowe) and EJ702 (Kirknewton)
Unpaused, both signals cleared to G as expected
Saved

Restart and run the save

Although the routes are still set up, the two signals are now R

Bill

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Some glitches, I think. 17/08/2021 at 20:23 #141187
headshot119
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bill_gensheet in post 141185 said:
Peter Bennet in post 141184 said:
Afterbrunel in post 141183 said:
Excellent sim by the way. I don't think these have been reported yet.

1) If you clear the non-stop release on Kingsknowe and Kirknewton level crossings, this does not survive a save and exit when you reopen the sim on another occasion.

What exactly are the symptoms?

Peter
Effect confirmed, save attached.
Started with no timetable and paused.
Clicked both 'non-stops' and set routes forward from ES692 (Kingsknowe) and EJ702 (Kirknewton)
Unpaused, both signals cleared to G as expected
Saved

Restart and run the save

Although the routes are still set up, the two signals are now R

Bill
Could you post this to Mantis, that way there's a proper record and it won't get forgotten about.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Some glitches, I think. 17/08/2021 at 22:00 #141190
Peter Bennet
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The signal aspect in the save is 6 which is Green so the save is OK.
There must be something in the loading that's tripping up.

Peter

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Some glitches, I think. 17/08/2021 at 22:30 #141191
Peter Bennet
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Might be related to Mantis 0034121, and aspects initially defaulting to red on loading.
Clicking on the button again resolves for the time being.

Peter

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Some glitches, I think. 18/08/2021 at 05:57 #141193
andyallen4014
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Quote:

2) Imagine a train fails, but it will be running again at a time hh:mm. If it so happens that you save and exit at that exact time and reopen later, the sim forgets that the train is going to restart, and in fact it remains failed for ever. (I do a lot of short-ish sessions; this has happened twice in the last 12 hours of simulated time.)
Quote:

I think that's core code
I've certainly experienced this in other sims, not exclusive to Edinburgh.

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Last edited: 18/08/2021 at 05:58 by andyallen4014
Reason: None given

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Some glitches, I think. 18/08/2021 at 07:31 #141194
clive
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andyallen4014 in post 141193 said:
Quote:

2) Imagine a train fails, but it will be running again at a time hh:mm. If it so happens that you save and exit at that exact time and reopen later, the sim forgets that the train is going to restart, and in fact it remains failed for ever. (I do a lot of short-ish sessions; this has happened twice in the last 12 hours of simulated time.)
Quote:

I think that's core code
I've certainly experienced this in other sims, not exclusive to Edinburgh.
I'm sure that's core code.

I've raised Mantis 34407 for this. A saved game that shows the problem would be very useful.

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Some glitches, I think. 18/08/2021 at 07:34 #141195
clive
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Peter Bennet in post 141190 said:
The signal aspect in the save is 6 which is Green so the save is OK.
There must be something in the loading that's tripping up.
If you asked me to guess, whatever special trick you're using to set the non-stop (e.g. a FLG) isn't being loaded early enough to hold the signal at green.

If so, that's not going to be easy to fix.

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Some glitches, I think. 18/08/2021 at 07:52 #141197
Peter Bennet
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clive in post 141195 said:
Peter Bennet in post 141190 said:
The signal aspect in the save is 6 which is Green so the save is OK.
There must be something in the loading that's tripping up.
If you asked me to guess, whatever special trick you're using to set the non-stop (e.g. a FLG) isn't being loaded early enough to hold the signal at green.

If so, that's not going to be easy to fix.
I suspect that whatever fix there is to the order of doing things will throw up a different problem.
Mantis 0034121 might fix but it's not a fatal problem as it just needs the button pressed again.

Peter

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Some glitches, I think. 18/08/2021 at 09:28 #141198
bill_gensheet
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headshot119 in post 141187 said:
bill_gensheet in post 141185 said:

Effect confirmed, save attached.
Started with no timetable and paused.
Clicked both 'non-stops' and set routes forward from ES692 (Kingsknowe) and EJ702 (Kirknewton)
Unpaused, both signals cleared to G as expected
Saved

Restart and run the save

Although the routes are still set up, the two signals are now R

Bill
Could you post this to Mantis, that way there's a proper record and it won't get forgotten about.
34408.
Also tested on Horsham (Warnham) which does reload in non-stop / signals G
Anyone else who uses sims with the same situation (AHB adjacent to a platform that has non-stop controls) please test and add.

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Some glitches, I think. 18/08/2021 at 15:31 #141203
GeoffM
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Peter Bennet in post 141197 said:
Mantis 0034121 might fix
No, that's about the train reporting an adverse change of aspect immediately after loading a save and passing the signal within a second or two.

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Some glitches, I think. 19/08/2021 at 14:03 #141213
Afterbrunel
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Is this a reply to me? If so I don;t understand.
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Some glitches, I think. 19/08/2021 at 14:07 #141214
Afterbrunel
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Is this is addressed to me? I attach a saved game. 2G29 is stalled at Dunfermline Town and will never restart.
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Some glitches, I think. 19/08/2021 at 14:09 #141215
Afterbrunel
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Quote:
I suspect it wants you to use the Warner route in these circumstances.
No, it refuses the route. As I said if you swing the scissors crossiver manually and then call teh route it will set immediately and normally with a full aspect.

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Some glitches, I think. 19/08/2021 at 15:04 #141216
Stephen Fulcher
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Afterbrunel in post 141213 said:
Is this a reply to me? If so I don;t understand.
If you are referring to Geoff’s post, then no it was a reply to Peter.

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Some glitches, I think. 19/08/2021 at 15:19 #141217
Hap
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Afterbrunel in post 141215 said:
Quote:
I suspect it wants you to use the Warner route in these circumstances.
No, it refuses the route. As I said if you swing the scissors crossiver manually and then call teh route it will set immediately and normally with a full aspect.
The Yellow warner route works as expected, track circuit needs to be occupied for a certain amount of time before the route pulls off, and I've certainly been slowed coming into EDB with 11 fully occupied, a train signalled to depart from 454 to 440, resulting in the points being locked normal and came in on p10 (now p7)

In relation to point 4. I noticed in the 1400 save that you provided that a lot of trains in the Edinburgh area have been made non-ARS. When this route pulled off exceptionally early, were there any approaching trains non-ARS?

How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue
Last edited: 19/08/2021 at 15:29 by Hap
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Some glitches, I think. 19/08/2021 at 16:42 #141218
GeoffM
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Afterbrunel in post 141213 said:
Is this a reply to me? If so I don;t understand.
To which reply are you referring?

SimSig Boss
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Some glitches, I think. 22/08/2021 at 09:31 #141294
Afterbrunel
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This is a reply mainly to Hap. Yes, I realise there is a delayed release for entry to an occupied berth.

This thread is getting rather confused. I think this part refers to the intermittent refusal of the sim to clear a down train into platform 10 when platform 11 is occupied and the scissors points are normal. If the scissors points are manually swung to reverse then the entry signal will clear (to a full aspect). In other words the sim doesn't swing the points to get a legitimate overlap.

The other situation I mentioned was the refusal of the sim to admit a second train to platform 17 when the ARS at Edinburgh is disabled. Disabling the ARS locally was a measure I was taking to avoid the premature clearance of the route for departures, which very frequently blocks punctual arrivals, and is a bl**dy nuisance. (I've been told it is not possible for me to edit the ARS logic.) When Edinburgh ARS is disabled, a second train will not be admitted to platform 17 for a join. NB I know about delayed release in this situation. If you then enable ARS the position light will clear, but if you immediately disable it again (to prevent other trains getting premature departure clearance) the position light will revert and you get adverse aspect in front of an aproaching train. (I realise there is an obvious workaround; I mention it to emphasise that this seems to be an inherent behaviour of the sim, not some combination of weird and infrequent circumstances.)

Hap mentions that in another save I had made most of the trains at Edinburgh individually non-ARS. This was an alternative I was attempting to avoid the premature rlease problem.

Hap also asked Quote:
When this route pulled off exceptionally early, were there any approaching trains non-ARS?
. My answer is several routes do it, but no.

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Some glitches, I think. 22/08/2021 at 09:44 #141295
postal
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Afterbrunel in post 141294 said:
The other situation I mentioned was the refusal of the sim to admit a second train to platform 17 when the ARS at Edinburgh is disabled. Disabling the ARS locally was a measure I was taking to avoid the premature clearance of the route for departures, which very frequently blocks punctual arrivals, and is a bl**dy nuisance.
As an alternative you could put a reminder on the P17 starter which would stop the ARS setting that particular departure route prematurely. If you are distracted elsewhere and forget to manually set the route over the reminder you soon get a phone call to let you know that the driver is fretting about the delayed departure.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Some glitches, I think. 22/08/2021 at 10:54 #141296
bill_gensheet
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Afterbrunel in post 141294 said:

The other situation I mentioned was the refusal of the sim to admit a second train to platform 17 when the ARS at Edinburgh is disabled.
Tested and works as intended, save attached of a test timetable.
You do though need to release the track circuit override by RIGHT clicking the red circle T button after setting up the route.
ARS does that for you

General wiki refers:
https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:glossary:track_circuit_override

Bill

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