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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT

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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 16/12/2021 at 12:11 #142931
58050
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flabberdacks in post 142929 said:
Albert in post 142892 said:
Some of the loco timings are fairly random. You can't attach 0V96 before 0S64 is out in any case. As long as the loco is on the train by the time it wants to depart (at 14:06) it won't be a problem.
Completely agree, but the loco that needs to be held until it can join enters from Saltley with a couple of trains right behind it. Nowhere to park the incoming loco to allow trains behind to pass, without abandoning table and using one of the station sidings. That was just why I suggested adjusting the entry time for 0V96.
The entry time for the loco could be amended, but light locos from Saltley LIP have the same problem as units running ECS from Tyseley T&RSMD. In the WTT all the ECS workings from Tyseley T&RSMD go into Small Heath Loop for anything up to 10 mins. Due to the fact that the Small Heath Loop location isn't in the list of New Street locations it can't be physically timetabled to be held there until its booked time hence the reason why all Cl.5 trains from Tyseley T&RSMD enter early. The same thing occurs in respect of locos off Saltley LIP. The entry location for trains entering on the Derby Lines is Water Orton & funny enough the running time of 7 minutes between Water Orton & the 1st location being Landor Street Jn is the same amount of time for a loco to come off Saltley LIP, driver to change ends in the 'Bank Engine' sdg & then proceed towards New Street. These issues would only be fixed once I've written the summer 1990 Saltley TT{sometime in 2022] to chain to New Street whereby users on Saltley would be able to regulate loco off Saltley LIP & Cl.5 trains off Tyseley T&RSMD by using the actual track available on the Saltley sim & also regualte accordingly. This is probably the only sim whereby this problem occurs bearing in mind other locations on the doorstep of the main station have locations whereby movements are held, but aren't actually controlled by the sim which has the main station on it. I did aska dev when I started writing this TT whether it was worth writing 2 versions of the TT, one as a stand alone & another for when chained, but they said no just add the times in from the WTT which is what was done, & as a result this is why you have these kind of issues. Another one is 1N03 which is a van train from Northampton which is booked to stand in Tile Hill loop for along time(IIRC around 20+ minutes), but again due to Tile Hill loop not being on the New Street list of locations as it is on & controlled by Coventry playing the New Street TT on its own it's down to the person to regulate that train as best he can by putting in a free platform at Birmingham Int'l without delaying anything else in that area[not easy I know]. Ultimately 1N03 goes into P1 at New Street & splits, so it would be a case of seeing when P1 is available to take 1N03 early. Obviously having Coventry chained removes this issue & the same will be the case in the future regarding locos entering from Saltley LIP. Until then its a case of the user using the track available to regualte traffic as best he can.

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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 16/12/2021 at 13:52 #142934
ajax103
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58050 in post 142509 said:
BIRMINGHAM NEW STREET 13th May 1990 - 28th September 1990 Monday to Friday
{Final file nameto be:- <Birmingham New Street 13th May 1990 - 28th September 1990> }

This timetable is dedicated to Mr. Ron Derry who was Chief Signalling Inspector at Birmingham New Street.
TIMETABLE NOTES

The timetable must be run in the 1976-1991 era. This should be automatically selected at start-up.
It is *not* recommended to have failures or delays selected.

GENERAL HINTS
* Read. The. Timetable!
* Read. The. Sim. Manual. https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:newstreet
* Read the timetable and the notes on each train. The notes are especially important for the Centre Signalman as they give extra information about stopping positions and activities.
** Look out for overlap setting buttons (grey triangles with purple labels). These are explained in the sim manual.
* Read the timetable

SOUTH 1
* If trains are more than a couple of minutes early at Grand Jn or Proof House Jn, liaise with the Centre Signalman to ensure that the train doesn't get in the way of something else.
* Several trains are booked to run on the Grand Jn Line so pay attention at Aston.

SOUTH 2
* Trains may use unexpected platforms at International, especiallty those that terminate. Read the timetable carefully
* Several trains are booked to run on the Grand Jn Line so pay attention at Stetchford.

CENTRE
* There are lots of engine changes, runrounds and assorted shunting moves. Read the timetable and notes carefully so you know what bit of which train is going where. This is especially important mid-morning when you have up to three engine changes happening at once. Sticky notes are invaluable here.
* At start-up there are trains in certain sidings. Check F2 so you know what is hiding where.
* Check carefully which reversing point to use for engines, especially at the north end. Remember that there are short 'wrong road' routes to LOS at both ends of the station. Be careful so you don't give yourself a Mexican!
* Some shunt routes may not work as expected. You need to use via buttons, as with main signals) and generally use the red arrows and entry/exit buittons.
* Don't change platforms unless you really have to.
* Try to anticipate moves, especially for shunting, but don't pull off too early.
* All of the main aspect signals, and some shunt routes, at New St station have 120 second timneouts. If you are joining trains you should cancel the mid-platform signal in plenty of time.
* Some trains may not be quite where the track circuits say they are (especially right in the middle of the platforms) so you may need to use the call-on signal in the middle of the platform to get the trains to join correctly.
* The interlocking is very fussy, especially about via buttons.

NORTH
* Don't give the Stourbridge slot too early as it locks up Galton Jn.
* Some of the routes around Soho and Perry Bar Jns have some very inconvenient overlaps, so be careful when setting routes in this area.


DMU Diagrams Type Seats
D200 - 217 Derby Cl.150 Sprinter 2 Cars 135 Seats
D230 - 250 Derby Cl.150 Sprinter 2 Cars 135 Seats (A/T Fitted)
T40 - 60 Tyseley Cl.116/117 3 Cars 256 Seats
T80 - 93 Tyseley Cl.115/116 4 Cars 325 Seats
T100 - 101 Tyseley Cl.121 Single Power Car 65 Seats
T120 - 124 Tyseley Cl.114 2 Cars 136 Seats
T150 - 159 Tyseley Cl.104/116 2 Cars 136 Seats
T200 - 205 Tyseley Cl.150/1 Sprinter 3 Cars 212 Seats
NC101 - 129 Norwich Crown Point Cl.156 Super Sprinter 2 Cars 155 Seats
CH236 - 239 Chester Cl.104 2 Cars 118 Seats
CAM90 - 92 Cambridge Cl.128/114 2 Cars Pcls Unit

EMU Diagrams
A50 - 58 Bletchley Cl.310 4 Cars 25/293 Seats
C1 - 43 Bletchley Cl.321 4 Cars 28/271 Seats
B61 - 91 Longsight Electric Cl.304 3 Cars - 206 Seats

Pool Codes
DCMW - Departmental (Area Civil Enginner Watford) locos.
DCML - Departmental Area Civil Engineer Liverpool) locos.
FABT - Railfreight (Aggregates) Tinsley locos
FEAN - Railfreight (PS Coal) Toton Cl.58 locos (Nottinghamshire)
FEBN - Railfreight (PS Coal) Toton Cl.58 locos (Yorkshire)
FECN - Railfreight (PS Coal) Toton Cl.56 locos (Nottinghamshire)
FGAT - Railfreight (Distribution) Tinsley Cl.47 Locos
FGHC - Railfreight (Distribution) Crewe Cl.85/0 & Cl.87/1 locos
FGLC - Railfreight (Distribution) Crewe Cl.86/4 locos
FGOT - Railfreight (Distribution) - Tinsley Cl.31 locos.
FGPC - Railfreight (Distribution) Crewe Cl.86/6 locos.
FGRC - Railfreight (Distribution) Crewe Cl.85/1 locos.
FMYI - Railfreight (Metals) Immingham Locos.
FPEK - Railfreight (Petroleum) Cardiff Canton locos.
FSGB - Bescot Depot Shunting Locos
ICCA - Inter-City Cross Country Locos
ICCP - Inter-City Cross Country Services Cl.43 Locos
ICDA - Inter-City Crewe Cl.47/4 Locos
IEBA - Inter City Euston to Birmingham Services Locos
ILRA - Inter-City Cl.47/8 Locos
IWCA - Inter City West Coast Services Locos
NNWX - Network South East - London & North Western
PNCX - Provincial Norwich Crown Point Units
PDYX - Provincial Derby Etches Park Units
PTSX - Provincial Tyseley Depot Units
RPXN - Parcels DPU cars
RXLB - Parcels Cl.31 Locos
RXLC - Parcels Crewe Cl.47 Locos
RXLD - Parcels Bristol & Old Oak Common Cl.47 locos
RXLE - Parcels AC Eletric Locos

Coaching Stock Codes
AC2D - Mk.2d Tourist Standard Open
AD1D - Mk.2d first open
AD2D - Mk.2d Standard Open
AD1E - Mk.2e First Open
AE2D - Mk.2d second brake
AE2E - Mk.2e Brake Second Open
AC2F - Mk.2f Tourist Standard Open
AJ1F - Mk.2f Restaurant Buffet Car 1st Class
AN2E - Mk.2e second with nature Buffet
AS4G - Mk.3 sleeper (unclassified)
<AS4G - Mk.3 Sleeper>
<AU4G - Mk.3 Sleeper(with pabtry)>
AU4G - Mk.3 sleeper with pantry (unclassified)

<NEA/NEX - Brake Gangwayed [BG] 100mph>
NEA/NEX - Bogie Brake Van (Gangwayed) 100mph
NJV/NKV - General Utility Vans [GUV] 90mph
NKX - Motorail General Utility Van [GUV] 90mph
NLX - Newspaper Van
NSX - Post Office Sorting Van
NTX - Post Office Stowage Van

Depot Codes
BS - Bescot TMD
BY - Bletchley TMD
CA - Cambridge T&RSMD
CD - Crewe Diesel TMD
DY - Derby Etches Park T&RSMD
NC - Norwich Crown Point T&RSMD
OC - Old Oak Common T&RSMD
TS - Tyseley T&RSMD
WN - Willesden TMD

FREIGHT TRAIN TAGGING
21G - Grimsby
65W - Wolverhampon ST
682 - Gloucester
862 - Eastleigh

Timetable Copyright © Pascal Nadin 2021

This timetable has ben written using the relevant WTTs for the area & period as well as the WCML(south) & West Midlands Trip Notice & also a Birmingham New Streeet arrival & departure book for the summer of 1990 showing all the platforms the trains are booked to use. I'd like to pay special thanks to Noel(noisynoel) & AndyG for their work on sorting out all the parcel & mail vans shunts. Also thanks goes to the following who helped out in the timetable tests:- KymriskaDraken(Kev), Alex103(Alex), AndyG, NoisyNoel(Noel), jc92(Joe) & if I've missed anyone apologise for that.
In total there are 1269 trains in this TT & the analyser shows 12 warnings. Users be warned that this timetable is busy right from the word go at midnight till around 02.00am where it goes quiet for a few hours before it starts to build up again for the morning peak. But please read the TT data for each train so you don't end up routing trains off their respected paths. It is essential that trains arrive in New Street at their booked time & platform as this TT is not very forgiving & trains arriving out of sequence or in the wrong platform may cause issues whereby users may have to abandon the game & resume agagin from the last saved snapshot. Anyone who has any issues please list them on this forum thread. This TT has just been sent up for moderator approval & hopefully will be available to be downloaded soon.
Thanks for the thanks but it's ajax103, ta

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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 16/12/2021 at 14:12 #142936
slatteryc
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217 posts
Hi folks nice timetable. Is there a list of possible shunt routes please like whats their for Clive's Euston sim ? What looks like possible from main signals doesnt seem to be for loco reverses ( and thats even with VIA buttons being used )
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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 16/12/2021 at 14:49 #142937
Albert
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Which specific route are you missing?

There are a few routes unavailable (P8-12 to LOS1 on the Up Stour, I have been told that this is according to real life so not a bug) and the route into P6 via "D" fails to clear in the current sim version, but other than that I was albe to route all locos.

AJP in games
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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 16/12/2021 at 15:01 #142941
slatteryc
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217 posts
oh nearly all of them ! NS242 Holliday st tnl to 1sg for example its almost impossible to figure out that its 242-D-224-197 and not the obvious 242-D-197 . Maybe its just me but I would need a list to get familiar with it so I am not random-clicking it while under pressure . As I said, Clive did this for Euston - see http://www.davros.org/rail/simsig/euston-manual.html
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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 16/12/2021 at 15:11 #142942
Albert
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You don't need to use that route, you can also use 242-B-238-C-224-197. Almost everything is possible, via any via button, you just need to route one shunt signal at a time if you're starting from a shunt signal. The shunt signals aren't preset if you don't start at a main signal.

And there are a few signals (indicated by the stem extending between the tracks) such as 153, 166, 224, and 238 that apply to two tracks leading into the same set of points.

AJP in games
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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 16/12/2021 at 15:59 #142944
58050
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2509 posts
slatteryc in post 142936 said:
Hi folks nice timetable. Is there a list of possible shunt routes please like whats their for Clive's Euston sim ? What looks like possible from main signals doesnt seem to be for loco reverses ( and thats even with VIA buttons being used )
Glad you are enjoting the timetable. However the answer from me is no there isn't a list of possible shunts that are available to run this TT. I only wrote the timetable, but the various shunt moves for locos & van shunts were all done by 2 other users & if one were to be created then it would be down to one of them to do it. I am aware of several users who are actually attempting to run through this TT & I'd say the best way to find out if a route is available is to post it on here. Like Albert has replied & I know he's actually completed the TT from midnight to midnight on his own. It might not be the answer you were looking for, but in all honesty I'm too busy writing/updating timetables to break from that to create a document relating to all the shunt movements. When we were testing this timetable I was always on the north panel & that for me on a personal basis is the one I like the most. I've never fancied working centre & like some people I know who worked in New Street PSB during the BR era all said that none of the signallers liked covering the Centre panel & they'd avoid it like the plague. But obviously one of them had to cover it.
Once all the issues raised have been sorted out a new version of this TT will be sent for moderator approval & I'll post on here when that is available.

Last edited: 16/12/2021 at 16:01 by 58050
Reason: None given

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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 16/12/2021 at 16:32 #142945
flabberdacks
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377 posts
58050 in post 142931 said:


once I've written the summer 1990 Saltley TT{sometime in 2022]
Won't this be something. I'm keen!

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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 16/12/2021 at 19:58 #142950
Soton_Speed
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58050 in post 142931 said:
Another one is 1N03 which is a van train from Northampton which is booked to stand in Tile Hill loop for along time(IIRC around 20+ minutes)
Just to confirm 1N03's stop at International is for regulation only?

Would it be possible to include any extra info in the TT on mandated dwell times for Postal/Parcel trains at New Street and any connections that need to be maintained? - "Where's that Holyhead stuff?..."

In Zone 6, no one can hear you scream...
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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 18/12/2021 at 22:49 #143003
Ray
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192 posts
After the first minute I need to get a train into Soho Depot. But there seems to be no obvious route from signal NS312 into a reverse sidings. I had to run the train all the way down to Smethwick and then reverse it. There must be a simpler way of doing this. Can anyone help here ?
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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 18/12/2021 at 22:54 #143004
headshot119
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4230 posts
Ray in post 143003 said:
After the first minute I need to get a train into Soho Depot. But there seems to be no obvious route from signal NS312 into a reverse sidings. I had to run the train all the way down to Smethwick and then reverse it. There must be a simpler way of doing this. Can anyone help here ?
You need to click the red arrow at NS312 > SB1, then SB1 > Rev Siding exit arrow

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 19/12/2021 at 18:08 #143018
slatteryc
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217 posts
Hi I had an access violation while running this sim
loader 5.17.2 sim data 5.4
couple of snaps and the error message attached . problem occurred at 0307

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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 22/12/2021 at 23:00 #143074
Ray
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192 posts
Birmingham NS must be the most frustrating sim of all. Route setting is generally back to front in the station area. I got to around 5.30 without much problem then I was confronted with empty stock trying to get to SG1 from Coventry side. It is like trying to guess the combination of a lock. Still havent worked it out and I have tried so many moves to create a path to SG1. Seems so complicated and incredibly frustrating !
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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 23/12/2021 at 02:49 #143075
GeoffM
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5739 posts
Birmingham New Street used the very first version of a geographic interlocking (I can't remember if it's Westpac or GE) so some of the controls are primitive and hard to learn. We aim to bring you maximum torture, just like the real thing.

I've extracted a route list with via buttons. Maybe somebody can sort it and make it more accessible. There may be a few off-screen routes there too.

Each line is of the form <FromSignal> [<ViaSignals>] <ToSignal>. Where there is, for example, NS243 as a from signal and CX as the to signal, in this case you can't set that particular route in this way (it's a dummy "signal" for SimSig purposes). Instead, there should be another entry where the from signal is of the form 243S (via B to NS186): this will be the red shunting triangle.

NS11 NS22
NS11 NS23
NS11 NS24
NS11 25S
NS11 NS26
NS12 MX
NS12 NS22
NS12 22S
NS12 NS22
NS12 MX
NS12 NS23
NS12 23S
NS12 NS23
NS12 NS24
NS12 25S
12S NS25
NS12 26S
NS12 NS26
NS12 26S
NS127 NS137
NS127 NS138
NS128 NS137
NS128 NS138
NS128 NS138
NS128 NS143
NS128 NS138
NS129 NS139
NS129 NS143
NS130 NS138
NS130 NS138
NS130 NS143
NS130 NS138
NS130 NS139
NS13 NS12
NS132 NS94
NS132 SY201
NS133 NS82
NS133 NS132
NS133 NS132
NS135 NS438
NS135 NS94
NS136 NS83
NS136 NS135
NS136 NS94
NS136 SY201
NS137 NS139
NS138 NS139
NS139 NS151
NS141 NS139
NS141 NS144
NS142 NS136
NS143 NS144
NS144 NS151
NS144 NS154
NS146 NS82
NS146 NS132
NS147 NS153
NS147 NS192
NS147 NS194
NS147 NS196
NS147 NS201
NS147 NS203
NS147 VIAE NS198
NS148 NS135
NS148 NS82
NS148 NS133
NS148 NS142
NS148 NS133
NS149 NS135
NS149 NS82
NS149 NS133
NS149 NS142
NS151 CX
151S 157X
NS151 NS182
NS151 NS182
NS151 NS183
NS151 NS183
NS151 184S
NS151 NS184
NS151 CX
151S NS216
NS151 NS187
NS151 NS187
NS151 NS189
NS151 NS189
NS151 CX
151S NS222
NS151 NS192
NS151 NS192
NS152 NS156
NS152 NS184
NS152 NS153
NS153 NS184
NS153 NS184
NS153 NS216
NS153 NS216
NS153 NS187
NS153 NS187
NS153 NS189
NS153 NS189
NS153 NS222
NS153 NS222
NS153 NS192
NS153 NS192
NS154 NS203
NS154 NS203
NS154 VIAE NS198
NS154 VIAE NS198
NS154 VIAF NS198
NS154 VIAF NS198
NS154 VIAF NS199
NS154 VIAF NS199
NS154 VIAF NS205
NS154 VIAF NS205
NS154 184S
NS154 NS184
NS154 CX
154S NS216
NS154 NS187
NS154 NS187
NS154 NS189
NS154 NS189
NS154 CX
154S NS222
NS154 NS192
NS154 NS192
NS154 NS194
NS154 NS194
NS154 CX
154S NS196
NS154 NS201
NS154 NS201
NS155 NS153
NS155 NS192
NS155 NS194
NS155 NS196
NS155 NS201
NS155 NS203
NS155 NS198
NS155 NS199
NS155 NS205
NS156 157X
NS156 NS182
NS156 NS183
NS156 NS184
NS157 NS159
NS158 NS159
NS159 CX
159S NS160
NS159 NS148
NS159 CX
159S NS148
NS161 NS159
NS16 CX
16S LOS3
NS162 CX
162S NS160
NS162 NS148
NS162 CX
162S NS148
NS16 NS412
NS16 CX
16S NS412
NS163 NS162
NS163 NS149
NS163 CX
163S NS149
NS163 CX
163S NS150
NS164 NS166
NS165 NS148
NS165 CX
165S NS148
NS165 NS149
NS165 CX
165S NS149
NS165 CX
165S NS150
NS166 NS165
NS166 NS165
NS167 NS148
NS167 CX
167S NS148
NS167 NS149
NS167 CX
167S NS149
NS167 CX
167S NS150
NS168 NS171
NS168 NS167
NS169 NS170
NS170 NS167
NS171 NS149
NS171 CX
171S NS149
NS171 CX
171S NS150
NS17 CX
17S LOS3
NS172 NS149
NS172 CX
172S NS149
NS172 CX
172S NS150
NS17 NS412
NS17 CX
17S NS412
NS173 NS149
NS173 NS150
NS174 NS177
NS175 NS149
NS175 CX
175S NS149
NS175 CX
175S NS150
NS176 NS175
NS177 NS149
NS177 CX
177S NS149
NS177 CX
177S NS150
NS178 NS149
NS178 CX
178S NS149
NS179 NS149
NS179 CX
179S NS149
NS181 NS149
NS181 CX
181S NS149
NS18 LOS3
18S LOS3
NS182 212S
NS182 NS212
NS18 412CX
18S NS412
NS183 214S
NS183 NS214
NS184 215S
NS184 NS215
NS184 CX
184S NS216
NS185 163S
NS185 NS163
NS186 NS164
NS186 NS163
NS187 CX
NS187 NS217
NS187 217S
NS188 NS166
NS188 NS166
NS189 NS219
NS189 NS219
NS191 NS170
NS191 NS170
NS19 CX
19S LOS3
NS192 223S
NS192 NS223
NS19 NS412
NS19 CX
19S NS412
NS193 NS168
NS193 NS168
NS194 NS225
NS194 NS225
NS195 172S
NS195 NS172
NS196 NS227
NS196 NS228
NS197 NS173
NS198 232S
NS198 NS232
NS199 233S
NS199 NS233
NS201 228S
NS201 NS228
NS202 NS176
NS202 NS176
202S NS173
NS202 CX
NS203 231S
NS203 NS231
NS204 NS174
NS204 NS174
NS205 240S
NS205 NS240
NS206 NS207
NS206 NS207
NS207 NS178
NS208 179S
NS208 NS179
NS209 181S
NS209 NS181
NS211 VIAA NS452
NS211 VIAB NS452
NS211 NS471
NS21 CX
21S LOS3
NS212 VIAA NS452
NS212 VIAA CX
212S VIAA NS452
NS212 VIAB CX
212S VIAB NS452
NS212 NS471
NS212 CX
212S NS471
NS21 NS412
NS21 CX
21S NS412
NS213 NS158
NS213 211X
NS214 VIAA NS452
NS214 VIAA CX
214S VIAA NS452
NS214 VIAB CX
214S VIAB NS452
NS214 NS471
NS214 CX
214S NS471
NS215 VIAA NS452
NS215 VIAA CX
215S VIAA NS452
NS215 VIAB CX
215S VIAB NS452
NS215 NS471
NS215 CX
215S NS471
NS216 NS218
NS217 NS218
NS218 VIAA NS452
NS218 VIAA CX
218S VIAA NS452
NS218 VIAB CX
218S VIAB NS452
NS218 NS471
NS218 CX
218S NS471
NS219 NS221
NS221 VIAB NS452
NS221 VIAB CX
221S VIAB NS452
NS221 NS471
NS221 CX
221S NS471
NS22 NS417
NS22 CX
22S NS417
NS222 NS221
NS22 CX
22S LOS2
NS223 VIAB VIAC NS452
NS223 VIAB VIAC CX
223S VIAB VIAC NS452
NS223 VIAC NS471
NS223 VIAC CX
223S VIAC NS471
NS223 VIAD NS471
NS223 VIAD CX
223S VIAD NS471
NS223 VIAG LOS1
223S VIAG LOS1
NS223 VIAG NS471
NS223 VIAG CX
223S VIAG NS471
NS224 NS197
NS224 NS197
NS224 NS195
NS224 NS195
NS224 NS193
NS224 NS193
NS225 NS226
NS226 VIAB VIAC NS452
NS226 VIAB VIAC CX
226S VIAB VIAC NS452
NS226 VIAC NS471
NS226 VIAC CX
226S VIAC NS471
NS226 VIAD NS471
NS226 VIAD CX
226S VIAD NS471
NS226 VIAG LOS1
226S VIAG LOS1
NS226 VIAG NS471
NS226 VIAG CX
226S VIAG NS471
NS227 NS226
NS228 VIAD NS452
NS228 VIAD CX
228S VIAD NS452
NS228 VIAD NS471
NS228 VIAD CX
228S VIAD NS471
NS228 VIAG CX
228S VIAG LOS1
NS228 VIAG NS471
NS228 VIAG CX
228S VIAG NS471
NS229 NS471
NS229 CX
NS229 NS471
229S NS471
NS229 CX
229S LOS1
NS229 LOS1
NS231 NS471
NS231 CX
231S NS471
NS231 CX
231S LOS1
NS23 NS417
NS23 CX
23S NS417
NS232 NS471
NS232 CX
232S NS471
NS232 CX
232S LOS1
NS23 CX
23S LOS2
NS233 NS471
NS233 CX
NS233 CX
233S LOS1
233S NS471
NS234 VIAA NS452
NS235 VIAA NS452
NS236 NS185
NS236 NS161
NS236 NS213
NS237 NS188
NS237 NS186
NS237 NS236
NS237 235X
NS237 234X
NS238 NS236
NS238 NS236
NS238 NS161
NS238 NS185
NS238 NS186
NS238 NS186
NS238 NS188
NS238 NS188
NS238 NS191
NS238 NS191
NS238 NS169
NS238 NS169
NS238 VIAC NS224
NS238 VIAC NS224
NS240 NS471
NS240 CX
NS240 CX
240S LOS1
240S NS471
NS241 NS238
NS241 VIAD NS202
NS241 VIAD NS224
NS241 229X
NS241 NS204
NS241 NS206
NS241 NS208
NS241 VIAG NS202
NS241 VIAG NS224
NS24 NS417
NS24 CX
24S NS417
NS242 VIAA NS237
NS242 VIAB NS238
NS242 VIAD NS224
NS242 VIAD NS202
NS24 CX
NS24 CX
24S LOS2
NS243 VIAB 211X
NS243 VIAB VIAC NS195
NS243 VIAB VIAC NS195
243S VIAB VIAC NS195
NS243 VIAB VIAC CX
243S VIAB VIAC NS197
NS243 VIAD NS202
NS243 VIAD NS202
243S VIAD NS202
243S VIAB 211X
NS243 VIAB NS158
NS243 VIAB NS158
243S VIAB NS158
NS243 VIAB NS161
NS243 VIAB NS161
243S VIAB NS161
NS243 VIAB NS185
NS243 VIAB NS185
243S VIAB NS185
NS243 VIAB CX
243S VIAB NS186
NS243 VIAB NS188
NS243 VIAB NS188
243S VIAB NS188
NS243 VIAB NS191
NS243 VIAB NS191
243S VIAB NS191
NS243 VIAB CX
243S VIAB NS169
NS243 VIAB VIAC NS193
NS243 VIAB VIAC NS193
243S VIAB VIAC NS193
NS244 CX
NS244 VIAG NS195
NS244 VIAG NS195
244S VIAG NS195
NS244 VIAG CX
244S VIAG NS197
NS244 VIAG NS202
NS244 VIAG NS202
244S VIAG NS202
NS244 229X
NS244 229X
NS244 CX
244S 229X
NS244 NS204
NS244 NS204
244S NS204
NS244 NS206
NS244 NS206
244S NS206
NS244 NS208
NS244 NS208
244S NS208
NS244 NS209
NS244 NS209
244S NS209
244S 211X
NS244 NS158
NS244 NS158
244S NS158
NS244 NS161
NS244 NS161
244S NS161
NS244 NS185
NS244 NS185
244S NS185
NS244 CX
244S NS186
NS244 NS188
NS244 NS188
244S NS188
NS244 NS191
NS244 NS191
244S NS191
NS244 CX
244S NS169
NS244 VIAG NS193
NS244 VIAG NS193
244S VIAG NS193
NS245 NS244
NS246 NS255
NS246 NS241
NS247 SY56
NS248 NS453
NS249 NS453
NS251 SY56
NS25 417CX
25S NS417
NS25 LOS2
25S LOS2
NS254 NS260
NS254 NS261
NS255 NS238
NS255 VIAG NS224
NS255 VIAG NS202
NS255 229X
NS255 NS204
NS255 NS206
NS255 NS208
NS255 NS209
NS256 NS260
NS257 NS463
NS257 LOS5
NS257 256X
NS258 NS260
NS258 NS261
NS260 NS263
NS261 NS263
NS26 NS417
NS26 CX
26S NS417
NS262 LOS5
NS262 NS257
NS26 CX
26S LOS2
NS263 NS278
NS263 NS269
NS265 NS465
NS266 NS465
NS267 NS465
NS268 NS273
NS268 NS274
NS269 NS273
NS269 NS274
NS272 NS267
NS272 NS266
NS272 NS279
NS273 WL201
NS274 WL201
NS278 CX
NS278 NS283
278S NS283
NS279 NS283
NS279 NS283
NS281 NS268
NS281 NS265
NS283 NS285
NS285 CX
285S 287X
NS285 NS315
NS286 287X
NS286 NS315
NS287 NS469
NS287 CX
287S LOS6
NS288 NS469
NS293 NS305
NS295 NS245
NS29 NS31
NS29 NS18
NS29 NS19
NS29 NS21
NS301 NS245
NS304 NS308
NS305 NS312
NS306 NS312
NS306 LOS7
NS308 NS295
NS308 NS301
NS309 CX
309S NS295
NS309 NS301
NS31 CX
NS31 NS21
NS31 21S
NS31 NS21
NS312 CX
312S SB1
NS312 NS322
NS31 CX
NS312 NS316
NS31 NS19
NS31 19S
NS31 NS19
NS310 NS309
NS31 NS18
NS31 NS18
NS31 18S
31S NS18
NS311 NS309
NS31 NS17
NS315 NS311
NS315 NS323
NS31 CX
NS31 NS16
NS31 16S
NS316 NS288
NS317 NS288
NS318 NS329
NS318 319X
NS319 NS310
NS319 NS320
NS319 318X
NS321 NS326
NS32 NS31
NS322 CX
322S NS333
NS322 NS334
NS323 CX
323S NS333
NS323 NS334
NS324 NS317
NS325 NS333
NS325 NS334
NS325 LOS4
NS326 LOS4
NS327 CX
327S NS324
NS327 NS317
NS327 NS310
NS328 NS317
NS328 NS310
NS329 NS333
NS331 NS328
NS331 SB2
NS333 NS339
NS334 NS339
NS336 NS331
NS337 CX
337S NS327
NS337 NS317
NS337 NS310
NS338 NS337
NS339 SJ21
NS339 NS478
NS342 NS338
SJ20 NS342
NS344 NS338
NS349 NS344
NS35 NS39
NS351 NS353
NS359 NS365
NS361 362X
NS361 NS353
NS362 NS483
NS362 362XX
NS363 NS483
NS364 LOS8
NS365 WN192
NS365 WN192
NS365 WN194
NS366 NS489
NS367 NS489
NS37 NS425
NS38 NS425
NS39 NS445
NS39 NS427
NS41 NS37
NS485 NS483
NS499 NS141
NS56 NS62
NS57 NS62
NS58 NS254
NS58 AN101
NS61 NS436
NS61 NS404
NS61 NS72
NS62 NS436
NS62 NS404
NS62 NS72
NS65 NS58
NS66 NS58
NS68 NS58
NS69 NS58
NS72 NS76
NS75 NS499
NS75 NS141
NS82 NS442
NS82 NS443
NS83 NS442
NS94 SY92
SB1 NS329
SB1 319X
SB2 NS320
SB2 318X
SJ20 NS342
SY83 SY87
SY85 SY87
SY87 NS127
SY87 NS127
SY87 NS130
SY87 NS130
NS133 NS94
NS133 SY201
NS134 NS133
NS135 NS438
NS135 NS94
NS137 NS151
NS138 NS137
NS138 NS143
NS139 NS143
NS141 NS143
NS143 NS151
NS143 NS154
NS144 NS151
NS144 NS154
NS145 NS151
NS146 NS135
NS146 NS82
NS146 NS133
NS82 NS443

I've added a Mantis idea ticket (35339) to allow users to get this list directly in the sim.

SimSig Boss
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The following user said thank you: Soton_Speed
Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 23/12/2021 at 08:31 #143077
kbarber
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Euston was also Westpac I believe. It was certainly the case that, when setting a series of shunt routes, you had to start with the one furthest from where the train was standing and set each route in turn working towards the train (in other words each route was set towards a shunt signal that was already clear). Whether that was inherent in Westpac locking or just a feature of Euston I have no idea. It did have the merit, though, that when a loco was being moved from one platform to another, the drivers simply headed out as far as they were signalled then looked back at each shunt signal as they passed it; the moment one cleared they stopped and set back into the station (a feature I don't think Simsig can emulate).
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The following user said thank you: flabberdacks
Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 23/12/2021 at 08:57 #143078
flabberdacks
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377 posts
I've had a lot of fun learning how to route-set in the sim all over again, having never used the old layout. I set routes in reverse back towards the train at Proof House quite a bit, to avoid the extra click of manual overlap selection.
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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 23/12/2021 at 11:41 #143079
58050
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2509 posts
When I've spoken to a couple of friends who knew the Birmingham New Street PSB, they've both said none of the signallers at New Street PSB liked manning the centre panel. They all avoidied it, but unfortunately someone had to do it otherwise the trains wouldn't have run. I can imagine the signallers racing to get to the panel first for shift change overs so they could avoid centre panel as best they could.
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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 23/12/2021 at 12:00 #143080
Phil-jmw
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618 posts
58050 in post 143079 said:
When I've spoken to a couple of friends who knew the Birmingham New Street PSB, they've both said none of the signallers at New Street PSB liked manning the centre panel. They all avoidied it, but unfortunately someone had to do it otherwise the trains wouldn't have run. I can imagine the signallers racing to get to the panel first for shift change overs so they could avoid centre panel as best they could.
It wouldn't be a free-for-all at shift change, the panels are rostered. At Derby you would start the week for instance on the West, then Centre the next day, North (before it merged with the Centre) the day after, then back to the West. When the panels were separately graded briefly in the 1990's you were stuck with the same panel every day, which made it difficult sometimes to get Centre men to work 12hrs or RDW as 8 hours were enough (meal relief had gone by then as well so it was a full 8 hrs, sometimes pushing buttons with one hand while holding a sandwich in the other).

Last edited: 23/12/2021 at 12:06 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 29/12/2021 at 14:04 #143179
slatteryc
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217 posts
I am up to 13:20 - this is an excellent timetable. After learning the frustration of getting the shunt routes correct especially for platforms 5,6,7 nearly all the problems are minor except for 1

in a light engine attaching to ECS it (the LE) nearly always stops in the wrong place along the platform when joining , and since it is so busy I don't notice till well after it should have TRTS'd , and then have to abandon/shunt forward/pick up timetable again before it will join, all the while usually two or three trains standing in a throat

This is with the correct LE attaching to the correct rake, in the correct platform in the correct part of the platform as per TT at the correct time ; too many trains to mention have the issue. Very frustrating - carlisle doesn't do this at all.

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Birmingham New Street Summer 1990 TT 29/12/2021 at 15:36 #143181
58050
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2509 posts
slatteryc in post 143179 said:
I am up to 13:20 - this is an excellent timetable. After learning the frustration of getting the shunt routes correct especially for platforms 5,6,7 nearly all the problems are minor except for 1

in a light engine attaching to ECS it (the LE) nearly always stops in the wrong place along the platform when joining , and since it is so busy I don't notice till well after it should have TRTS'd , and then have to abandon/shunt forward/pick up timetable again before it will join, all the while usually two or three trains standing in a throat

This is with the correct LE attaching to the correct rake, in the correct platform in the correct part of the platform as per TT at the correct time ; too many trains to mention have the issue. Very frustrating - carlisle doesn't do this at all.
This is currently being looked at & there maybe a way round this issue. I'm not doing this another user is & he's still investigating the issue. I only found out about this myself yesterday. When the updated version of this TT is released items raised on this thread should hopefully be reduced in number.

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