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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018

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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 04/12/2021 at 18:49 #142747
Tony Gardner
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Briefly, 7N86 enters at signal 330 at about 2230 after permission has been granted by me. Sig 330 is cleared into Whites Crossing siding and 7N86 appears. It travels into the siding and then the red occupation line goes white. An error message advises that permission was not granted. I have run this part of the scenario several times and I've tried ringing both the Merehead Quarry Departure and Arrival points, but neither wants the train. I've even tried the ESR to no avail. 7N86 simply disappears from the scenario and is never seen again! I have taken 12 screenshots showing each aspect, but I am only attaching a few to show the important points. Can anyone assist, as I thought that I required permission for trains to enter the quarry, but having already given permission for a train to enter my section, I did not realise that I needed further permissions. Older threads do not seem to cover this particular problem.






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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 04/12/2021 at 19:12 #142748
flabberdacks
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Hello, are you able to supply a savegame or snapshot from before 7N86 enters, so that we may investigate?
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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 04/12/2021 at 19:40 #142749
Peter Bennet
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5165 posts
I've had a look at the data but I'm struggling to follow what exactly the chain of events was from what you said.
The train is departing from Merehead so why would you call Merehead?
Whites Crossing siding is not a fall-off point so I don't follow why it disappeared.

I need to understand the chain of events before having a save.

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
Last edited: 04/12/2021 at 19:48 by Peter Bennet
Reason: None given

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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 04/12/2021 at 19:54 #142750
Peter Bennet
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Ah, what's the length of 7N86?

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 04/12/2021 at 19:59 #142751
Steamer
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It could be that 7N86 is either too long or stopping in the wrong place. On departure it's going straight back in to the sidings.

Would need to know the timetable name to confirm.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 04/12/2021 at 20:06 #142753
Peter Bennet
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Steamer in post 142751 said:
It could be that 7N86 is either too long or stopping in the wrong place. On departure it's going straight back in to the sidings.

Would need to know the timetable name to confirm.
That's what I was wondering and seems to be the most likely answer at the moment.

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 05/12/2021 at 01:29 #142755
Tony Gardner
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Solved. Length of train reduced to 400 metres. It now runs into the siding and upon signalling to the mainline the train moves out! There is no indication of the length of Whites Crossing siding in the wiki. Clearly, it is less than 800 metres. Thanks to Steamer for the suggestion.




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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 05/12/2021 at 01:37 #142756
headshot119
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It would be great if we could have a savegame and the "Technical info" found under Hamburger > Help > About > Technical Info to investigate this further. Unfortunately screenshots don't allow us to investigate much at all.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 05/12/2021 at 10:29 #142759
Albert
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The track circuit in the sim has a length of exactly 800 metres. As trains keep some distance from the buffer stops the train will need to be slightly shorter.

Note that some of the lengths in the sim do not exactly correspond to reality (see here).

AJP in games
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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 05/12/2021 at 11:46 #142764
Tony Gardner
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On a final note to this problem, I ran the scenario again a couple of times and when the Quarry telephoned me, I edited the length of the train finally to 700m prior to its entry onto the map. No problems were encountered. Perhaps the wiki page should have an entry to explain the length of train and siding problem? Incidentally, I realise that Steamer et al were right in that the train went into the siding, stopped, and then reversed back into the departure line. This is of course why I was receiving the "entering without permission" message. I watched the progress of the train and could see that it travelled at 15 mph before it stopped, still occupying the section. It then reversed into the departure line.
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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 05/12/2021 at 12:14 #142765
jc92
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Tony Gardner in post 142764 said:
Perhaps the wiki page should have an entry to explain the length of train and siding problem?
As Headshot has said, can we have some more details? was this a user submitted timetable, or the default packaged timetable? if its the former, it may well be a timetable error, if its the latter then the timetable will need to be reviewed to fix the issue.

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 05/12/2021 at 14:15 #142767
Tony Gardner
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I hope that the attached screenshot explains. If not, please ask for more information. As explained, the train is too long for the siding. Simply reducing the length to below 800m will sort things out. Can the timetable be amended to suit?

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Last edited: 05/12/2021 at 14:17 by Tony Gardner
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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 05/12/2021 at 14:33 #142768
Albert
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Somehow most of us missed "11 Nov 2018" in the topic title which is the timetable. (I didn't notice either.)

I would suggest making a post in the thread of the timetable here to catch the attention of the author of the TT, who appears to be still active on the forum.

AJP in games
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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 05/12/2021 at 14:46 #142769
Tony Gardner
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Thanks Albert. This is the only train that came out of the quarry on this particular Sunday timetable and so I had not encountered anything similar until 2230. It is one of the last trains to appear. I'll drop a note into the link. It is a simple matter to change the length of the train to less than 800m. (Just checked and it is the only train scheduled to come out of the Merehead quarry in this timetable.)
Last edited: 05/12/2021 at 15:08 by Tony Gardner
Reason: Added last line to clarify possible timetabling issue.

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Merehead Quarry departure without permission 11 Nov 2018 05/12/2021 at 23:46 #142784
postal
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4869 posts
No matter how much information goes into text, screen shot, thread title or whatever, it is always less helpful to people trying to diagnose a problem than a saved game.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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