Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 27/06/2022 at 17:44 #147001
whatlep
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Timetables for summer 1977 and summer 1996 have just been submitted to the Mods for approval. Lots of operating to keep you on your toes in both eras. Do, please, read the detailed guidance in the "General" tab before commencing operations.

As usual, while everything has been tested on multiple runs through, there's bound to be something that's missing or non-obvious. Please add to this thread if you find something of interest.

To forestall a question asked in respect of other timetables I've developed, no, these aren't designed for chaining. Sadly I don't have the time or resources to achieve that.

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 28/06/2022 at 16:36 #147011
bossman
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Nice to have some old fashioned timetables for Warrington. Only thing I have noticed so far is in the 1996 (00:00) start, that 1N26 seeded at 182 signal instead of Warrington B Q station, then it proceeded to miss Wigan North Western as well. Obviously the driver was in a hurry to get home..!! Great looking timetables though whatlep.
cliff cook
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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 28/06/2022 at 17:30 #147013
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bossman in post 147011 said:
Nice to have some old fashioned timetables for Warrington. Only thing I have noticed so far is in the 1996 (00:00) start, that 1N26 seeded at 182 signal instead of Warrington B Q station, then it proceeded to miss Wigan North Western as well. Obviously the driver was in a hurry to get home..!! Great looking timetables though whatlep.
Aaargh! It should seed at signal 188, not 182. I clearly missed it, concentrating on the other moves at startup. Duly noted and will be fixed in a new release. An instant fix is to edit the seeding point manually for each of the four occurrences of the seed 1N26 and save the new timetable.

Thank you - keep the reports coming!

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 28/06/2022 at 18:07 #147015
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In 1977 TT, 5F70 seeds at sig. 21 (Platform 2) at Wigan NW and truncates. Should be Platform 1 (sig. 23 or 14)
Planotransitophobic!
Last edited: 28/06/2022 at 18:09 by sloppyjag
Reason: None given

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 28/06/2022 at 21:52 #147020
whatlep
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sloppyjag in post 147015 said:
In 1977 TT, 5F70 seeds at sig. 21 (Platform 2) at Wigan NW and truncates. Should be Platform 1 (sig. 23 or 14)
Thank you for the heads-up. Right train, but wrong symptoms!

5F70MO-0700 (UID) only seeds on a Monday and seeds at the correct place. However, its timetable incorrectly shows platform 1 at Wigan NW, rather than platform 2.

The truncation is much more interesting. Basically, I've carried over the length of a 6 car unit to the 3 car unit definitions (two of them). The correct length is 56 metres. Number of trains for which this matters? You've guessed it: just this one on only one day of the week! The timetable checker doesn't pick it up, in case you were wondering.

The length error also features in the 1996 timetables, but the number of trains affected is precisely zero. I will correct those timetables anyway.

Work-round pending a new version. Alter both Class 10x DMU (3-car) and Class 110 DMU (3-car) in the Train Types tab of the timetable to be 56 metres.

Thanks again - keep the issues coming.

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 29/06/2022 at 14:16 #147032
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Thank you very much for these two, just enjoying the 1977 at the moment.

Maybe a minor one, Friday selected and the Seed 6F43-FO has 24/xx Timings.
So its a bit 1440 mins early from Walton Old Jn (Had a Look, 6F43-WO the same).

At 07:30, nothing else so far.

Many Greetings!

Last edited: 29/06/2022 at 14:55 by Class 86
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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 29/06/2022 at 14:31 #147033
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Playing Wednesday, 0H27 enters on time at Springs Branch to head to Bickershaw but 9H27 (presumably it's collected working) has already entered 40 minutes early causing a Mexican. Presumably this needs a rule?
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 29/06/2022 at 17:38 #147037
whatlep
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Splodge in post 147033 said:
Playing Wednesday, 0H27 enters on time at Springs Branch to head to Bickershaw but 9H27 (presumably it's collected working) has already entered 40 minutes early causing a Mexican. Presumably this needs a rule?
Agreed - rule inserted into V1.1.

EDIT - and another for the light engine off the return working...

Last edited: 29/06/2022 at 20:14 by whatlep
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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 29/06/2022 at 17:42 #147039
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Class 86 in post 147032 said:
Thank you very much for these two, just enjoying the 1977 at the moment.

Maybe a minor one, Friday selected and the Seed 6F43-FO has 24/xx Timings.
So its a bit 1440 mins early from Walton Old Jn (Had a Look, 6F43-WO the same).

At 07:30, nothing else so far.

Many Greetings!
Thank you - my error cut/pasting from the TThO timings. Corrected for V1.1.

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 01/07/2022 at 11:53 #147076
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I'm thoroughly enjoying the 1977 TT (and the recently released Chester 1977 TT).

I've just had this strange one though. I'm up to 0500 Friday and have just had 7M04 0215 Healey Mills - Mold Jn call up to depart Arpley Sdgs before the inwards arrived from Healey Mills, thus ignoring the rule stating to wait 90 mins until after arrival of the inwards working.

Last edited: 01/07/2022 at 12:05 by Phil-jmw
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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 01/07/2022 at 15:08 #147082
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Phil-jmw in post 147076 said:
I'm thoroughly enjoying the 1977 TT (and the recently released Chester 1977 TT).

I've just had this strange one though. I'm up to 0500 Friday and have just had 7M04 0215 Healey Mills - Mold Jn call up to depart Arpley Sdgs before the inwards arrived from Healey Mills, thus ignoring the rule stating to wait 90 mins until after arrival of the inwards working.
Hmmm - interesting. I wonder if the rule needs to be "must appear 'x' minutes after Y leaves the area"? Any of the SimSig developers out there reading this?

Thanks for the kind words, by the way.

Last edited: 01/07/2022 at 15:10 by whatlep
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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 01/07/2022 at 15:10 #147083
Steamer
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whatlep in post 147082 said:
Phil-jmw in post 147076 said:
I'm thoroughly enjoying the 1977 TT (and the recently released Chester 1977 TT).

I've just had this strange one though. I'm up to 0500 Friday and have just had 7M04 0215 Healey Mills - Mold Jn call up to depart Arpley Sdgs before the inwards arrived from Healey Mills, thus ignoring the rule stating to wait 90 mins until after arrival of the inwards working.
Hmmm - interesting. I wonder if the rule needs to be "must appear 'x' minutes after Y leaves the area"? Any of the SimSig developers out there reading this?

Thanks for the kind words, by the way.
If the rule is applying to an exit location, I'd always go with 'exits area' just in case.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 01/07/2022 at 15:32 #147088
GeoffM
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Steamer in post 147083 said:
whatlep in post 147082 said:
Phil-jmw in post 147076 said:
I'm thoroughly enjoying the 1977 TT (and the recently released Chester 1977 TT).

I've just had this strange one though. I'm up to 0500 Friday and have just had 7M04 0215 Healey Mills - Mold Jn call up to depart Arpley Sdgs before the inwards arrived from Healey Mills, thus ignoring the rule stating to wait 90 mins until after arrival of the inwards working.
Hmmm - interesting. I wonder if the rule needs to be "must appear 'x' minutes after Y leaves the area"? Any of the SimSig developers out there reading this?

Thanks for the kind words, by the way.
If the rule is applying to an exit location, I'd always go with 'exits area' just in case.
^ This. Experience has shown that if we have the final location in the sim rather than just falling off, the train can do some undesired things which may or may not be caught during testing.

SimSig Boss
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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 01/07/2022 at 18:47 #147095
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Steamer in post 147083 said:
whatlep in post 147082 said:
Phil-jmw in post 147076 said:
I'm thoroughly enjoying the 1977 TT (and the recently released Chester 1977 TT).

I've just had this strange one though. I'm up to 0500 Friday and have just had 7M04 0215 Healey Mills - Mold Jn call up to depart Arpley Sdgs before the inwards arrived from Healey Mills, thus ignoring the rule stating to wait 90 mins until after arrival of the inwards working.
Hmmm - interesting. I wonder if the rule needs to be "must appear 'x' minutes after Y leaves the area"? Any of the SimSig developers out there reading this?

Thanks for the kind words, by the way.
If the rule is applying to an exit location, I'd always go with 'exits area' just in case.
The problem though is the second train entering before the first (arrives/exits) to start the rule timer. When I have been caught out by using 'arrives at exit' when 'leaves area' is required the second train never appears.

If the sim reports arrival times for a given exit, you can use 'arrives or passes' for rules.
If the sim does not report exit times, it will be due to the problem outlined by Geoff so either use a prior location or use 'leaves area'.
I do not like that as 'Leaves area' will be triggered by leaving in the wrong place.

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 01/07/2022 at 18:49 #147096
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whatlep in post 147082 said:
Phil-jmw in post 147076 said:
I'm thoroughly enjoying the 1977 TT (and the recently released Chester 1977 TT).

I've just had this strange one though. I'm up to 0500 Friday and have just had 7M04 0215 Healey Mills - Mold Jn call up to depart Arpley Sdgs before the inwards arrived from Healey Mills, thus ignoring the rule stating to wait 90 mins until after arrival of the inwards working.
Hmmm - interesting. I wonder if the rule needs to be "must appear 'x' minutes after Y leaves the area"? Any of the SimSig developers out there reading this?

Thanks for the kind words, by the way.

Yes, The rule needs to be a 'Must appear X mins after Y ........' rather than a 'Must not depart from Z.....'

The train does not 'depart' Arpley as such.

Bill

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 02/07/2022 at 00:58 #147098
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bill_gensheet in post 147096 said:
whatlep in post 147082 said:
Phil-jmw in post 147076 said:
I'm thoroughly enjoying the 1977 TT (and the recently released Chester 1977 TT).

I've just had this strange one though. I'm up to 0500 Friday and have just had 7M04 0215 Healey Mills - Mold Jn call up to depart Arpley Sdgs before the inwards arrived from Healey Mills, thus ignoring the rule stating to wait 90 mins until after arrival of the inwards working.
Hmmm - interesting. I wonder if the rule needs to be "must appear 'x' minutes after Y leaves the area"? Any of the SimSig developers out there reading this?

Thanks for the kind words, by the way.

Yes, The rule needs to be a 'Must appear X mins after Y ........' rather than a 'Must not depart from Z.....'

The train does not 'depart' Arpley as such.

Bill
Many thanks for that. A whole series of changes to be made in that case. Input much appreciated.

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 02/07/2022 at 12:32 #147103
whatlep
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Quick update for those interested. V1.1 for all three timetables is ready for submission to the Mods, but I'll hold off until Monday to allow any further issues identified over the weekend to be included.

FYI, most of the issues only feature in the 1977 timetable which - as you'd expect - is rather more complex than 1996. So far only 2 issues spotted for 1996, neither significant.

Thanks to all those who have flagged bugs so far.

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 03/07/2022 at 23:42 #147122
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Phil-jmw in post 147076 said:
I've just had this strange one though. I'm up to 0500 Friday and have just had 7M04 0215 Healey Mills - Mold Jn call up to depart Arpley Sdgs before the inwards arrived from Healey Mills, thus ignoring the rule stating to wait 90 mins until after arrival of the inwards working.
I've just had a similar issue with 6E76 0820 Dallam Sdgs - Scunthorpe. As others have highlighted, it looks like the incorrect rule being used.

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 04/07/2022 at 09:34 #147126
whatlep
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Phil-jmw in post 147122 said:
Phil-jmw in post 147076 said:
I've just had this strange one though. I'm up to 0500 Friday and have just had 7M04 0215 Healey Mills - Mold Jn call up to depart Arpley Sdgs before the inwards arrived from Healey Mills, thus ignoring the rule stating to wait 90 mins until after arrival of the inwards working.
I've just had a similar issue with 6E76 0820 Dallam Sdgs - Scunthorpe. As others have highlighted, it looks like the incorrect rule being used.
Agreed - all similar rules in the 1977 version have been updated in V1.1 which will be made available very shortly. 1996 appears "clean" apart from the two start-up issues advised in this thread.

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 04/07/2022 at 13:02 #147127
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A very minor one from 1977 - 6S82-1306 is booked to stand in the Down Slow at WBQ, but doesn't have through line stop ticked so calls wrong route.

EDIT: Also 9D40WO-1410 on the Up Goods

There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
Last edited: 04/07/2022 at 13:55 by Splodge
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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 04/07/2022 at 15:55 #147132
Ray
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4M54 detaches 0Z00 at Wigan South Junction signal 47. 4M54 comes from Plat 1 and it is partially in PLat 1. So 0Z00 moves off and away. Now I find a big problem. No matter how much I try I cant get 0M54 to join with 5M54. I cant even get 0M54 anywhere near the front of 4M54 whichever route I try. Setting and locking the points doesnt work either. So has anyone got a solution for this problem ?
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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 04/07/2022 at 16:15 #147135
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I locked the points and authorised the light engine to pass the protecting signal at danger.

Glyn

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 04/07/2022 at 16:33 #147137
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Ray in post 147132 said:
4M54 detaches 0Z00 at Wigan South Junction signal 47. 4M54 comes from Plat 1 and it is partially in PLat 1. So 0Z00 moves off and away. Now I find a big problem. No matter how much I try I cant get 0M54 to join with 5M54. I cant even get 0M54 anywhere near the front of 4M54 whichever route I try. Setting and locking the points doesnt work either. So has anyone got a solution for this problem ?
From the notes:
Quote:
0M54MX-0215 must be manually signalled past signal 51 at danger to join 4M54MX-0207

There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 04/07/2022 at 16:55 #147138
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Splodge in post 147127 said:
A very minor one from 1977 - 6S82-1306 is booked to stand in the Down Slow at WBQ, but doesn't have through line stop ticked so calls wrong route.

EDIT: Also 9D40WO-1410 on the Up Goods
Damn - that was a problem I noted in testing and had also marked as fixed. It will apply to all the workings due to change crews on the goods lines at Bank Quay. Those are:
6S82-1306
9D40MO-1410
9D40WO-1410
9D40FO-1410
8F21-1701
6M27TO-2227
6M27THO-2227

I also need to double-check if it affects the workings that change locos at Bank Quay. I don't recall that being an issue and you should have already notied an issue with 6S99-0956 by now. Please let me know if you see an issue with any loco changes.

Interim fix is to tick the "through line stop" box at Warrington Bank Quay for the trains listed. I will issue V1.2 soon-ish to cover the bug. V1.1 has been made available literally in the last hour!

Thanks for the heads-up. Please keep them coming.

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Warrington 1977 & 1996 timetables 04/07/2022 at 16:57 #147139
whatlep
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Splodge in post 147137 said:
Ray in post 147132 said:
4M54 detaches 0Z00 at Wigan South Junction signal 47. 4M54 comes from Plat 1 and it is partially in PLat 1. So 0Z00 moves off and away. Now I find a big problem. No matter how much I try I cant get 0M54 to join with 5M54. I cant even get 0M54 anywhere near the front of 4M54 whichever route I try. Setting and locking the points doesnt work either. So has anyone got a solution for this problem ?
From the notes:
Quote:
0M54MX-0215 must be manually signalled past signal 51 at danger to join 4M54MX-0207
That is indeed the only way to resolve the issue unless the simulation itself gets an update. For clarity, it's not a random action of mine: the train concerned was expressly booked to change traction at Wigan South Jn.

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