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| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 07/12/2022 at 12:07 #149182 | |
bill_gensheet
1318 posts |
Suspect it is as simple as a typo in setting up which TC are recognised as Cootamundra West in the data. The result is more like the 'junction' setup not station. Trains report when getting to the first one. Added comment about CA19 Log in to reply The following user said thank you: drew |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 03/01/2023 at 13:20 #149944 | |
drew
69 posts |
So, Cunningar... I've reached an impasse with trying to attach or detach anything at Cunningar or Galong sidings. See the attached timetable. As usual I suspect we're looking at my lack of expertise and probably bugs with the sim. I would like the first train (D910 / 3910) to attach loaded grain wagons at Cunningar and Galong sidings and continue on the up, and a subsequent train (3014) to drop off more empties at the same locations and then return the locos light to Cootamundra. I considered using the consist change at location in the first instance, route the train into Cunningar siding, and then change the consist to be longer per the number of wagons "attached". Wait an appropriate time, then continue to Galong siding, repeat the exercise to "attach" some more, and depart as the final length consist. It kind of worked, but not. The train details updated in the timetable description, but the consist length stayed as per the light loco movement (55m versus desired 300-something) in the F2 list. Magic no work right. So, being an inventive soul, I thought I might seed some wagons into the sidings and then attach them in due course. I got unpowered consists to seed into Cunningar and Galong sidings. I can get the train into the sidings, but I can't get anything to attach. Not sure what's actually in those sidings track wise. Dropping off at Cunningar is worse. I get a warning about not being allowed to reverse in Cunningar siding in either direction, and the train won't even enter the sim. Cunningar can be an entry location, so maybe we're meant to have the train exit and then re-enter? As an entry location, it has no connections to anywhere else, so it's useless as a location to visit and depart from. I've timetabled a second option for the dropping off train (3014), that exits to drop wagons at Harden and then re-enters to drop the remainder at Galong siding. I would make them either/or with a decision, If the first option wasn't banned. But not much point dropping empties if I can't lift the loadeds first. So yeah, I'm scratching my head liable to start a small fire at this point. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 03/01/2023 at 15:47 #149946 | |
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bill_gensheet
1318 posts |
Cunningar is an exit/entry, not a stop, so you cannot reverse there. You can seed at the GF signal, but then hit the bugs noted below. If a train is invalid (ie shown as errors), it will not enter. Galong is however an in-sim siding so you were using that one OK. Cunningar paths - problems noted below as Mantis 37375 when I tried a similar exercise, although now revised from initial report after working through your trains. >> Attempting to use Cunningar siding, trains can arrive OK, but cannot leave. No paths from Cunningar siding to Cunningar rev @GF or Galong Even if valid to timetable to Galong, the train will not pass the LOS without a PSAD. >> It is possible departing down is not allowed, and the train should return to Harden - any thoughts ? Attached timetable, which I think will be OK if the sim gets the expected fixes. Added a 3999 in case trains from Cunningar have to return to Harden. Validates but looks a bit odd, request to check / amend these suspect paths also added to Mantis 37375 Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: drew |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 04/01/2023 at 10:30 #149961 | |
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drew
69 posts |
bill_gensheet in post 149946 said:>>The ARTC Network Information Book isn't terribly illuminating. The shunt limit board isn't shown on any of the diagrams but it's existence and approximate location (approx. 900m on the Sydney side of the siding points) are mentioned. Operationally, I guess they don't want you to wander off into the section without having passed an absolute signal, which would be the scenario leaving the sidings on the up. A more cashed up infrastructure manager would have made the signal at 379.6 the starter, and all would have been well. It says that trains that shunt and return to Harden must be push-pull. It doesn't say that you can't proceed on the up to Galong if that's your general direction of choice. The STOP board is still in yard limits, you could get permission to pass it and proceed, so the sim may be correct in requiring that if you're leaving the sidings and heading to Galong. Log in to reply |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 04/01/2023 at 10:50 #149963 | |
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drew
69 posts |
bill_gensheet in post 149946 said:Cunningar is an exit/entry, not a stop, so you cannot reverse there. You can seed at the GF signal, but then hit the bugs noted below.OK, that makes sense. I'll leave Cunningar well alone in the interim. Thanks for checking it out. Log in to reply |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 04/01/2023 at 12:06 #149966 | |
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drew
69 posts |
I've updated to avoid Cunningar for now. I still haven't convinced 3910B and 17NGTY to join at Galong siding. They're both seemingly in the same place, and looking to join each other, but nothing happens. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 04/01/2023 at 16:59 #149971 | |
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bill_gensheet
1318 posts |
I'll start with no, I do not know how, and it does not make much sense to me either 17NGTY says it is in 'Galong Siding' in F2, but is actually sitting in Jerrawa. The frames have the same number 101ER - might be the cause ? ------------------- Use the second of the 'HS SDG' as the seed point, that is the one at Galong. Still needs more fiddling of stop points etc to get you a fully working timetable. Last edited: 04/01/2023 at 21:28 by bill_gensheet Reason: Added information Log in to reply |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 04/01/2023 at 21:59 #149984 | |
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bill_gensheet
1318 posts |
Galong now behaving. 1000m siding so easy to position the 17 wagons Had another go at Jerrawa, as you'd found how to seed there by accident ! It is 320m, hence care to position the wagons so the loco goes inside. Less of a problem if you are picking up with a long train anyway. However I don't think I have got how the GF are meant to operated. Anyone dev tell me what the release conditions are on the frames ? Seem unable to release Jerrawa B or E when there is a train nearby, yet Galong behaves as I'd expect (from UK) - train stops and you release the frame. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 04/01/2023 at 22:00 by bill_gensheet Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: drew |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 05/01/2023 at 11:09 #149999 | |
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drew
69 posts |
Thanks Bill, if you're not a genius you'll do until we get one. Galong as 1000m is probably overstating the prototypical standing room, but I'll take it. The Jerrawa frames have got to be a bit kooky in the sim. I ran your timetable and found that frame B was uncooperative until I took the release for frame E, took the frame E key, and then returned both to normal. Then frame B would release, and I got the train over onto the down at the points for frame E. Then Frame E was uncooperative. Nothing worked until I clicked on the still blank fortress key check box. Then it let me take the release and actually check the fortress key box and swing the points. It's escape room stuff. The ARTC NIB only says: Quote: 2.15 Jerrawa (JWA) It goes on about that "track occupied" or not business without specifying which track. I'd presume they mean the track over the points, and not the track leading to them, but it's ARTC. The sim doesn't seem to be giving the 11 minute option either way, so I suspect the logic is a bit bung. I'd expect it to work much like Galong. In 2018 up to today you might require a longer than usual timeout to simulate having to unclip the frame B crossover. For 1987 purposes, there was a signal box there and the less fancy the operation, the better. The only good news about Jerrawa is there's no silo, it's too far into the hills for growing wheat. It's got a refuge and a goods siding. I'd look for an excuse to shunt it with something though. 2429 could call there occasionally, if we can decide what might get shipped. A couple of wagon loads of something. The other option is a stowed rake of ballast wagons and a plough, which could have been stabled any time. They could get picked up by light engines from Goulburn or Cootamundra, and taken to Marulan for loading. Frame B at Marulan is booked out, but you could substitute Lynwood (which wasn't there in 1987). Then if there's still time you could send the loaded ballast wherever. Nothing like a bit of adhoc action. Log in to reply |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 05/01/2023 at 22:42 #150043 | |
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bill_gensheet
1318 posts |
Thanks for the NIB link, some bedtime reading ................
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| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 06/01/2023 at 05:59 #150045 | |
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drew
69 posts |
We usually say safeworking literature is a good cure for insomnia. ARTC have lots of info in the public domain.
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| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 06/01/2023 at 11:39 #150049 | |
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drew
69 posts |
Another one from the "I never saw that coming" file: Wallendbeen Wallendbeen frames B and A4 are opposite ends of a wheat silo with two parallel sidings. The silo hasn't been shunted for a number of years now, but it's prime territory for 1987 wheat trains. In the sim, both ends are entry and exit points (and they both work, kind of). I've timetabled a train into frame B, light engines from Cootamundra, timetable validates (yay!). The train ignores the fact that it's destination is Frame B and charges through on the up headed for the horizon. If I take frame B early enough before it gets there, and have it pass 256.2 and 254.6 at stop, I can get it up to HS5. HS5 won't clear for me, but passing it at stop the train will arrive satisfactorily at the frame B siding and exit. One down, several to go... After a while I've got a shunt from frame B, back out onto the up main with 10 loaded wagons is tow, reverse at HS5 again, and back into frame B. I'm simulating pulling the contents of one of the silo roads and then combining them with the contents of the other road. The train appears on time, I can get frame B reverse, reverse the points, but neither HS4 or HS5 will clear. Passing the HS's at stop, the move can be completed, and the train exits again at frame B. Then I've got a rogue movement out of frame B, to the up main, and back onto platform 2. This was if I was only lifting 10 wagons and I left it in by mistake but it's an interesting exercise. I think HS4 actually cleared for this one. I was shocked! HS5. not so willing, but the move could be completed. Unfortunately, the train departed the platform in the wrong direction, headed up on the down. Not sure what happened there. My next planned move was the assembled train out of frame A4 onto platform 1 to reverse. Train appeared, A4 release was obtainable, and the points reversed. HS3 didn't work, passed it at stop, got to the platform OK, train reversed to face down. Restored frame A4, could not get the release for frame A1. I fiddled for ages, and eventually got the A1 release. Did it time out? It didn't say it was trying. Anyway, reversed the A1 points, couldn't clear HS1, passed it at stop, the train headed off merrily towards Cootamundra. I think the crew deserve a cuppa (or a cold one, it's 1987 in rural Australia after all). So yeah, I did it, but I wouldn't ask the average punter to attempt it as is. Please see the attached save. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: leigh |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 07/01/2023 at 23:04 #150079 | |
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bill_gensheet
1318 posts |
My attempts at working Wallendbeen resulted in Mantis 37380 Added your comments Bill Log in to reply The following user said thank you: drew |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 12/01/2023 at 02:02 #150122 | |
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drew
69 posts |
Just for completeness: Bundanoon and Wingello Both have crossovers and refuge sidings worked off ground frames. Wingello also has the goods siding oof frame B, which is pretty much dedicated to perway use. None of the sidings have timing locations or reversing points to access them in a timetable. Don't know how well the ground frames function in the sim. The developers built them, but then didn't make them very useful. I'm not super worried about either location and wouldn't prioritise making them work properly. I was going to put a "late running" limestone train away at Bundanoon, just for fun, but can live without it. Log in to reply |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 12/01/2023 at 13:42 #150127 | |
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bill_gensheet
1318 posts |
They are shown as 'in sim' ('buffer ended siding' so correctly do not have entry pointsHowever they do not appear to be able to be timetabled, comment converted to Mantis 37710 as low priority suggestion. Had wondered about a timetable decision using the DED at Exeter, stop to examine, proceed at 10kph and detach a faulty wagon in Wingello. Should suitably mess up train running ! Log in to reply |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 31/03/2023 at 05:49 #150992 | |
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drew
69 posts |
Just when you thought it was safe... You can't run locos around a train at Robertson (or Mt Murray, or Summit Tank, or Calwalla). There's no reversing points at the loop home signals (except the down end of Calwalla at 34.8 signal, go figure). Why would you even want to? Ballast trains. Probably other reasons too, but mostly ballast trains. Log in to reply |
| Timetable pathing issues (several, various). 01/04/2023 at 12:35 #150997 | |
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drew
69 posts |
Robertson Perway siding, I can seed a train into there via the first "Sdg handsignal" seed point on the list below "SB4". There are two potential locations in the timetable editor, "ROBERTSON SDG", and "ROBERTSON GF81". The former will route up to Robertson, the later will only route down to the former. Robertson doesn't route back to either, only to Calwalla on the up and Mount Murray on the down. With the train seeded into the siding, it faces up, and reports "Points set against train" with the ground frame points thrown either way. Clearing the Siding handsignal on the ground frame is possible, but the train is still reporting "Points set against train". So yeah, can seed to the siding, can timetable out of the siding but the train won't go, can't timetable back in. Log in to reply |