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Thameslink-y Sim stuff.

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Thameslink-y Sim stuff. 25/08/2023 at 21:43 #152989
37087
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As others have already mentioned, perhaps some sort of updates to Vic Eastern, London Bridge, West Hampstead and Kings Cross (already licensed / can be paid for or whatever) so as to show the new Blackfriars, new London Bridge, new Kings Cross, and something more appropriate in the Core as well as the Canal Tunnels?

And, of course, electrification north of Bedford so that the Luton / Corby 360s can be added?

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Thameslink-y Sim stuff. 26/08/2023 at 00:28 #152990
Jriver
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Agree - London Bridge and the Core through Farringdon would be a great update. However, this would be new turf for Simsig in seeing the first simulated area of ETCS Level 2. I believe the actual TMS for this area also shows if trains are operating in ATO, and gives Signallers some new toys to play with like cooperative shortening of Movement Authorities. Level 2 also sees legacy constraints like approach control removed for trains that are operating in Full Supervision. Probably an awful lot of new code to replicate this - but never say never
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Thameslink-y Sim stuff. 26/08/2023 at 21:57 #153011
kaiwhara
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37087 in post 152989 said:
As others have already mentioned, perhaps some sort of updates to Vic Eastern, London Bridge, West Hampstead and Kings Cross (already licensed / can be paid for or whatever) so as to show the new Blackfriars, new London Bridge, new Kings Cross, and something more appropriate in the Core as well as the Canal Tunnels?

And, of course, electrification north of Bedford so that the Luton / Corby 360s can be added?
It has been mentioned before that to do this is to virtually rebuild each of those sims which is a massive task. Spending time on this will delay/prevent development of new simulations, so it's quite unlikely this will happen.

The Kiwi

Sorry guys, I am in the business of making people wait!
Last edited: 26/08/2023 at 21:58 by kaiwhara
Reason: I can't spell

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Thameslink-y Sim stuff. 26/08/2023 at 22:15 #153012
Guts
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kaiwhara in post 153011 said:
37087 in post 152989 said:
As others have already mentioned, perhaps some sort of updates to Vic Eastern, London Bridge, West Hampstead and Kings Cross (already licensed / can be paid for or whatever) so as to show the new Blackfriars, new London Bridge, new Kings Cross, and something more appropriate in the Core as well as the Canal Tunnels?

And, of course, electrification north of Bedford so that the Luton / Corby 360s can be added?
It has been mentioned before that to do this is to virtually rebuild each of those sims which is a massive task. Spending time on this will delay/prevent development of new simulations, so it's quite unlikely this will happen.

The Kiwi
Agreed BUT the let the upgrade be sold seperately.

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Thameslink-y Sim stuff. 26/08/2023 at 22:19 #153013
Peter Bennet
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Have they started using the ATC through the Core yet?

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Thameslink-y Sim stuff. 26/08/2023 at 23:10 #153014
Richard Gore
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Not sure whether you mean the ETCS or the ATO but yes, they're both in use, just not necessarily for every train.
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Thameslink-y Sim stuff. 27/08/2023 at 11:46 #153015
bill_gensheet
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37087 in post 152989 said:
As others have already mentioned, perhaps some sort of updates to Vic Eastern, London Bridge, West Hampstead and Kings Cross (already licensed / can be paid for or whatever) so as to show the new Blackfriars, new London Bridge, new Kings Cross, and something more appropriate in the Core as well as the Canal Tunnels?

And, of course, electrification north of Bedford so that the Luton / Corby 360s can be added?
To be honest, no to an 'update'. Adding such a large change era would be a testing nightmare to make sure older eras and timetables did not get broken. Yes there could be some data reuse in the simpler areas, north of Ally Pally and West Hampstead, south of Elephant / New Cross, but these would be far easier done ( = less unlikely to happen) as clean new sims, with an exception possibly Vic(SE).

How that might ever get dealt with commercially is a separate issue.

Remember this was called Thameslink 2000 - and took to 2018 to build it in reality !

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Thameslink-y Sim stuff. 01/09/2023 at 18:23 #153120
Guts
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bill_gensheet in post 153015 said:
37087 in post 152989 said:
As others have already mentioned, perhaps some sort of updates to Vic Eastern, London Bridge, West Hampstead and Kings Cross (already licensed / can be paid for or whatever) so as to show the new Blackfriars, new London Bridge, new Kings Cross, and something more appropriate in the Core as well as the Canal Tunnels?

And, of course, electrification north of Bedford so that the Luton / Corby 360s can be added?
To be honest, no to an 'update'. Adding such a large change era would be a testing nightmare to make sure older eras and timetables did not get broken. Yes there could be some data reuse in the simpler areas, north of Ally Pally and West Hampstead, south of Elephant / New Cross, but these would be far easier done ( = less unlikely to happen) as clean new sims, with an exception possibly Vic(SE).

How that might ever get dealt with commercially is a separate issue.

Remember this was called Thameslink 2000 - and took to 2018 to build it in reality !
Me personally, I'm in agreement with this. Loads of other games companies do it.

Make a separate one and charge for it, possibly a discount for owners of the previous version. [shrugs]

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Thameslink-y Sim stuff. 19/09/2023 at 06:53 #153358
Giantray
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Peter Bennet in post 153013 said:
Have they started using the ATC through the Core yet?

Peter

Yes Peter ETCS Level 2 with ATO is used through the core on a daily basis. It is an unusual set-up. You have conventional signalling overlayed with ETCS Level 2. The reason for this was, initially there were no Drivers trained in ETCS and there are many who have yet to learn it. So you will get a mixture of trains in ECTS ATO or under convential signalling. I believe the same way the East Coast ETCS is being done.

The Signallers on TBROC Core South & TBROC Core Central Workstations signal trains manually. ARS is planned, but no date to install it. There is a separate display screen that tells signallers whether trains are in or out of ECTS & in ATO. GTR Thameslink will not allow their Drivers to drive under ETCS so they are always in ATO when in ECTS. The only indication on the Signaller control screens is the White stalk of signals changes colour when a train is in ETCS. The reason for this is, because when convential signalling is being used, block sections are signal to signal, whereas under ETCS it can be Signal to signal, signal to block marker, block marker to block marker, & block marker to signal. There are more block sections under ETCS, thus some convential signal sections are split in into several block sections under ETCS. The one train per section rule applies under both systems. However, if a train is approaching a signal that has several ETCS block section and a train occupies the furthest blocksection, if the following train is run under convential signals, the signal will remain at danger, but if the following train is in ETCS, then provided the ETCS blocksections are clear, the signal will clear with a train in the signal section, but protected by ETCS. So the stalk on the signal changes colour so the Signaller can see the signal has cleared into an occupied signal section because the following train is in ETCS and not due to a wrong side failure.

Having travelled through the Core on a daily basis, you can tell which trains are in ETCS ATO and those that are being driven. Trains accelerate and brake much later when in ATO. Trains close up, whereas a Driver will not enter a platform until the mid-platform signal is showing a proceed. A train under ATO will not brake until past the mid platform signal, whereas a Driver will be braking approaching the platform.

Having worked the London Bridge ASC area for 25 years and the TBROC London Bridge Area for 7 years, anyone attempting to do a SIMSIG of the Thameslink layout will be starting from scratch for the St Johns - Ewer Street bit and Signaller control areas have changed too. The London Bridge Area controlled by Panels 3 & 9 at London Bridge ASC are controlled by four signalers now on Cannon Street B (lines 1-3);Core South (lines 3 & 4); Charing Cross (lines 6 - 8) and London Bridge 3A (lines 9-11) workstations at TBROC. I suppose the Core section could be done ignoring ETCS as present timetables are not constructed around the use of ETCS just yet, but then Core Central would be a new sim in itself, presently controlling Farringdon to kentish Town/Canal Tunnels and also St Pancras (High Level) East Midlands station, though St Pancras (High Level) is supposed to be returning to West Hampstead PSB in December.

Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution..
Last edited: 19/09/2023 at 06:56 by Giantray
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Thameslink-y Sim stuff. 28/10/2023 at 02:59 #153823
Jriver
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L168 - Was that signal approach controlled? Asking for a friend. :}
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Thameslink-y Sim stuff. 30/10/2023 at 19:14 #153835
Giantray
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Jriver in post 153823 said:
L168 - Was that signal approach controlled? Asking for a friend. :}
Not that I remember.

Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution..
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