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Cornwall Long Rock Depot West and PZ15/19

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Cornwall Long Rock Depot West and PZ15/19 19/05/2024 at 10:39 #156313
rfw
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1) Trains entering from Long Rock West will only ever enter from the CRW line and if TPZDR is occupied the train will never actually enter the sim, despite entry permission being granted.

2) Trains can be routed to reverse behind PZ15/19, on the entrance roads of the depot. When reversing behind PZ15 permission for the Flushing Apron must be granted. When reversing behind PZ19, permission for Long Rock Depot West must only be granted if the train is longer than TPZDR and also occupies TNTC_PZCRW.

3) When phoning for depot permission you cannot guarantee the road given, entering TNTC_PZCRW or TNTC_PZFLUSH on the wrong road will result in penalty



A) How long can trains be to reverse behind PZ19 before depot permission being required?


In order to have a bit of control over which road permission is given for and if desired by a TT author not block entry from the depot by being able to easily and reliably have a train reverse behind PZ15:

B) Please can an optional platform variable be added to both Penzance PZ15/19 & Penzance T&RSMD locations such that, in the 2000 Era, when specified and depot permission is requested that road is given, but if not specified current behaviour of either road is given, thus maintaining backwards compatibility.

The train now standing on platform 2, should be on the rails
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Cornwall Long Rock Depot West and PZ15/19 19/05/2024 at 12:20 #156314
DriverCurran
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Whilst not familiar with the workings of Long Rock (Being a former stabiliser rail juice jockey) not being able to guarantee which road the shunter sends the train to should/might be the real way the shunter deals with trains at that location. To use an example that I do know, the major berthing shed for my former depot had 90% of trains booked in via the washer road, however there was probably a 40 / 60 split that would would get the washer road. This includes the fact that stopping on the toilet apron to empty the tanks of the toilets was shown on the schedule card, if given the route via the main line with no such facilities you took it.

The way I view that scenario is that the shunter giving one road even if the train was shown via the other would be the equivalent of the shunter having a problem on the booked road. The 1982 timetables I'm doing for any SR sims that come out I have put decisions in to replicate where there is more than one way in and out of a depot to simulate the shunter needing a train maybe on a different line to that on which it is booked.

Paul

You have to get a red before you can get any other colour
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Cornwall Long Rock Depot West and PZ15/19 19/05/2024 at 15:28 #156316
Stephen Fulcher
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rfw in post 156313 said:
1) Trains entering from Long Rock West will only ever enter from the CRW line and if TPZDR is occupied the train will never actually enter the sim, despite entry permission being granted.

2) Trains can be routed to reverse behind PZ15/19, on the entrance roads of the depot. When reversing behind PZ15 permission for the Flushing Apron must be granted. When reversing behind PZ19, permission for Long Rock Depot West must only be granted if the train is longer than TPZDR and also occupies TNTC_PZCRW.

3) When phoning for depot permission you cannot guarantee the road given, entering TNTC_PZCRW or TNTC_PZFLUSH on the wrong road will result in penalty



A) How long can trains be to reverse behind PZ19 before depot permission being required?


In order to have a bit of control over which road permission is given for and if desired by a TT author not block entry from the depot by being able to easily and reliably have a train reverse behind PZ15:

B) Please can an optional platform variable be added to both Penzance PZ15/19 & Penzance T&RSMD locations such that, in the 2000 Era, when specified and depot permission is requested that road is given, but if not specified current behaviour of either road is given, thus maintaining backwards compatibility.
Number 1 is not an issue, the Shunter is requesting permission for a train to enter but it won’t actually enter until the line is clear to the first stop signal.

Mantis 40680 for #2.

Number 3 is not an issue, just send the train to the Depot on the line the Shunter tells you to.

PZDR track circuit is 130 metres long.

I’m not sure why it matters which line the Shunter grants for a train to leave the sim to enter the depot, ultimately it doesn’t matter as both lines end up in the same place off sim in reality

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Cornwall Long Rock Depot West and PZ15/19 19/05/2024 at 22:24 #156319
rfw
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1, 2 & 3 were statements of how things work as is in sim v1.6, for easy reference in the thread.
A was a query rendered irrelevant given 2 is a bug
B was a request.

Regarding B, as both have pointed out being able to specify the road for exiting the sim in the trip details is not going to happen.
But reversing behind PZ15 or PZ19 could potentially matter as stated in 1 and confirmed by yourself trains only ever enter on the CRW, and will not enter if TPZDR is occupied. Thus if a train is reversing behind PZ19 then no trans can enter the sim from the depot. And as stated in 2 and confirmed by Mantis 4860 being filed the trains need permission to reverse behind either signal and as stated in 3 you cannot guarantee the road you'll get, therefore if a train is booked to reverse behind PZ15/19 for a period of time during which there is another entry from the depot, you want it behind PZ15 and not behind PZ19 as the latter would block all trains entering from the depot, the only workaround being re-rolling the dice to get flushing apron permission. Being able to specify the road in the timetable would eliminate this issue.
Yes, you could have the train exit then re-enter at a later time given it is effectively in the depot anyway, but why then is it an option to reverse behind PZ15/19?

The train now standing on platform 2, should be on the rails
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Cornwall Long Rock Depot West and PZ15/19 20/05/2024 at 10:07 #156320
kbarber
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rfw in post 156319 said:
1, 2 & 3 were statements of how things work as is in sim v1.6, for easy reference in the thread.
A was a query rendered irrelevant given 2 is a bug
B was a request.

Regarding B, as both have pointed out being able to specify the road for exiting the sim in the trip details is not going to happen.
But reversing behind PZ15 or PZ19 could potentially matter as stated in 1 and confirmed by yourself trains only ever enter on the CRW, and will not enter if TPZDR is occupied. Thus if a train is reversing behind PZ19 then no trans can enter the sim from the depot. And as stated in 2 and confirmed by Mantis 4860 being filed the trains need permission to reverse behind either signal and as stated in 3 you cannot guarantee the road you'll get, therefore if a train is booked to reverse behind PZ15/19 for a period of time during which there is another entry from the depot, you want it behind PZ15 and not behind PZ19 as the latter would block all trains entering from the depot, the only workaround being re-rolling the dice to get flushing apron permission. Being able to specify the road in the timetable would eliminate this issue.
Yes, you could have the train exit then re-enter at a later time given it is effectively in the depot anyway, but why then is it an option to reverse behind PZ15/19?
Sometimes a yard would get boxed up, for some reason. Either because the shunter was a [insert railway expression for lack of competence/foresight], or because some minor problem had arisen either with the train blocking the entrance or further in, or just because the driver or shunter needed to nip away for a PNB and got distracted (a brew or a card game or somesuch) in their way back. And there has indeed been much wailing and gnashing of teeth when it's happened, but apart from applying footwear firmly to an appropriate part of either train or shunter there's not a lot you can do about it.

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The following user said thank you: mldaureol