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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 07/06/2024 at 21:34 #156498
flappy boi
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I've just uploaded the timetable for approval

This is a less stressful timetable as it's a Sunday.
Trains are diverted onto the NLL instead of continuing to Euston due to engineering works

Willesden Jn on RTT - Trains will not use HL platforms (4 or 5)
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WIJ/2024-06-16/0645-0045?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=LO

Service updates from NR
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/engineering-works/richmond-clapham-junction-and-gospel-oak-20240616/

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 08/06/2024 at 12:06 #156505
flappy boi
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Updated again last night to fix the 1400 seed issue, still waiting for new approval...
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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 09/06/2024 at 11:18 #156519
flappy boi
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While testing I found that O745 cannot spawn at 21 (Stonebridge Depot) while A203 is on 22 around 12:32
The O745 will spawn at 21 right after A203 leaves 22

Attached is the save game at 12:32

The other thing to note is that the overlap set from WS24 to WS22 does not swing to Kensal Gn Jn when WS23 is set to WS25. The workaround is to set WS22 to HL1102, then pull WS22 immediately when paused. I'd like to hear a better way of doing this

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 10/06/2024 at 00:39 #156524
clive
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flappy boi in post 156519 said:

While testing I found that O745 cannot spawn at 21 (Stonebridge Depot) while A203 is on 22 around 12:32
The O745 will spawn at 21 right after A203 leaves 22
The depot staff have signalled A203 into the depot, therefore blocking the exit for O745. I don't think they like trains standing around on the arrival roads.

Mantis 36420 is already open for this.

flappy boi in post 156519 said:

The other thing to note is that the overlap set from WS24 to WS22 does not swing to Kensal Gn Jn when WS23 is set to WS25. The workaround is to set WS22 to HL1102, then pull WS22 immediately when paused. I'd like to hear a better way of doing this :)
The problem here is that 507 points, as well as being the facing turnout towards Kensal Green Jn, is also the catch points for something running back from HL1102. Therefore signal 22 only has the one main overlap, towards Euston, and the overlap can't be swung - notice there's no overlap symbol on that route. This is explicit in both the control tables and the signalling scheme plan.

However, there is a warning route from 24 to 22 with a reduced overlap as well as the main route; this doesn't require 507 normal. Use that (click on 24 then click on the yellow arrow next to 22).

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 10/06/2024 at 01:31 #156526
flappy boi
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clive in post 156524 said:

Mantis 36420 is already open for this.

oooooooooh thats trade secrets... 👀

Here's what I think will work (which I will try tomorrow):
Let I203 SPAR WS37 with points keyed towards 22 Road (before I203 leaves SBP and turns into A203).
Do not set any route in the process.
Interpose A203 at WS34, cancel TD at WS37.
(its's attached so you can try it for me)


clive in post 156524 said:

However, there is a warning route from 24 to 22 with a reduced overlap as well as the main route; this doesn't require 507 normal. Use that (click on 24 then click on the yellow arrow next to 22).

I'm 100% aware of the approached controlled method and it's definitely more legal than what I do but I thought it'd be nice to have WS24 auto'ed as I tend to forget trains that are on the edge of the display 😂 Having the warner set means I can't have 24 auto'ed.

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 10/06/2024 at 09:29 #156528
clive
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flappy boi in post 156526 said:
clive in post 156524 said:

Mantis 36420 is already open for this.

oooooooooh thats trade secrets... 👀
Not particularly. Actually, it's the only issue open against WembleySub.

flappy boi in post 156526 said:

Here's what I think will work (which I will try tomorrow):
...
(its's attached so you can try it for me)
I don't need to try it. I know it won't work.

The correct answer is to alter the timetable to send it into the depot.

If you were only waiting for a minute or two, that would be different; you can just live with the delay. But you aren't.

flappy boi in post 156526 said:
clive in post 156524 said:

However, there is a warning route from 24 to 22 with a reduced overlap as well as the main route; this doesn't require 507 normal. Use that (click on 24 then click on the yellow arrow next to 22).

I'm 100% aware of the approached controlled method and it's definitely more legal than what I do but I thought it'd be nice to have WS24 auto'ed as I tend to forget trains that are on the edge of the display 😂 Having the warner set means I can't have 24 auto'ed.
What do you think the real signallers do? They have to set the routes by hand in this case, because that's what the interlocking requires. This isn't a bug or an omission; it's an exact implementation of the real thing.

Last edited: 10/06/2024 at 09:30 by clive
Reason: None given

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 10/06/2024 at 18:36 #156534
flappy boi
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clive in post 156528 said:

I don't need to try it. I know it won't work.

Indeed 🤣 Just tried it...

clive in post 156528 said:

The correct answer is to alter the timetable to send it into the depot.

I've made I203(C37157) go to the depot and made the A203(C38329) enter from road 22 with rules stating that A203 should enter 0 minutes after I203 leave my area, but O745 won't enter until WS34 is off for A203 (save game with modified tt attached tho)
Seems like the depot isn't happy with both roads occupied from any direction...
I wonder which rule I should use

clive in post 156528 said:

What do you think the real signallers do? They have to set the routes by hand in this case, because that's what the interlocking requires. This isn't a bug or an omission; it's an exact implementation of the real thing.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's a bug.

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 11/06/2024 at 00:18 #156538
clive
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If I remember, the problem was that A203 was sitting on the departure road for ages. You should schedule it to enter a minute or two before it's due to head out on to the main line. The depot staff assume that anything sitting around for too long wants to go (back) into the depot. Mantis 36420 is about re-educating them.
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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 11/06/2024 at 19:57 #156547
flappy boi
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clive in post 156538 said:
If I remember, the problem was that A203 was sitting on the departure road for ages. You should schedule it to enter a minute or two before it's due to head out on to the main line. The depot staff assume that anything sitting around for too long wants to go (back) into the depot. Mantis 36420 is about re-educating them.
Re-educating them sounds so scary... Guess I should add a new rule to make the depot send A203 after they send O745

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 12/06/2024 at 08:12 #156548
kbarber
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flappy boi in post 156547 said:
clive in post 156538 said:
If I remember, the problem was that A203 was sitting on the departure road for ages. You should schedule it to enter a minute or two before it's due to head out on to the main line. The depot staff assume that anything sitting around for too long wants to go (back) into the depot. Mantis 36420 is about re-educating them.
Re-educating them sounds so scary... Guess I should add a new rule to make the depot send A203 after they send O745
Re-educating Willesden shunters is indeed a scary prospect... rather Clive than me!!!!

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 12/06/2024 at 10:55 #156549
flappy boi
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kbarber in post 156548 said:
Re-educating Willesden shunters...

Whats wrong with Willesden 💀💀💀

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 12/06/2024 at 11:43 #156550
geswedey
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Upset a Willesden shunter about 30 years ago when I uncoupled a Loco at the Drivers request from a DOO freightliner that I had been cab riding as the Shunter hadn't appeared after we had been in the sidings for quite awhile. If I remember correctly we were light back to Stratford MPD having come from Ipswich where I had been doing Guards freight trains loads and train prep training in the yard.
Glyn Calvert ACIRO
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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 13/06/2024 at 08:10 #156560
kbarber
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flappy boi in post 156549 said:
kbarber in post 156548 said:
Re-educating Willesden shunters...

Whats wrong with Willesden 💀💀💀
Willesden shunters could be good lads when they'd a mind to be... a bit of a rough and ready lot (you learned a good deal of Patois bad language in their company, if nowt else) but once they sussed that you meant business - and that you played fair - they could work miracles. (It was a proud moment when a Nuneaton driver, bringing 7A45 (from memory) into the yard and finding himself hooked off almost before he'd come to stand, asked: "What you done, got the whip out?" On the other hand (and particularly before I played my way in fully), they could be right awkward cusses.

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 13/06/2024 at 14:38 #156563
flappy boi
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clive in post 156528 said:

The correct answer is to alter the timetable to send it into the depot.
If you were only waiting for a minute or two, that would be different; you can just live with the delay. But you aren't.
Fixed without sending A203 to depot by making O745 enter 10 minutes early, now the shunter is happy

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 13/06/2024 at 19:39 #156572
flappy boi
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New version is live here
Version 2
- Added rules to all trains
- No more duplicated headcodes
- A206-1 and O745-1 tweaked to depart 2 and 10 minutes earlier than the WTT timings respectively to make SPD shunters happy

Feel free to report issues here... (hope there isn't any)

8 Sept 2024 may be my next timetable, it seems quite fun to see Willesden plat 2 in regular use
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WIJ/2024-09-08/1000?toc=LO

Last edited: 14/06/2024 at 17:42 by flappy boi
Reason: now live

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 15/06/2024 at 12:04 #156585
flappy boi
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Issue found around 14:25 where I745-2 not entering depot via 21 road because A223 is on 22 Road
(or simply SB1 won't clear for I745-2)

Workaround - make it SPAD in the trains tab in F11

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Wembley Suburban 16 June 2024 Willesden Diversion 21/06/2024 at 14:44 #157635
flappy boi
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flappy boi in post 156585 said:
Issue found around 14:25 where I745-2 not entering depot via 21 road because A223 is on 22 Road
(or simply SB1 won't clear for I745-2)

Workaround - make it SPAD in the trains tab in F11

similar issues found around 2200, 2215, 2230 and 2245


other issue:
J224-L enters an hour late because of a typo in a rule (should be 60 mins after A224-K leaves instead of 120mins)

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